Author Topic: American Nannying of Drivers.  (Read 2546 times)

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #90 on: December 12, 2002, 07:06:46 PM »
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
No funked.  Economics says that you attempt to cut costs while maintaining revenue flow.  If they can get x ammount for the gas, they will continue to charge for it.  There is not a difference in gas prices on the other side of the river.

The jobs will go away... that is guaranteed.  There is no guarantee that the prices will drop as a result.  That is freshman economics funkedup.

AKDejaVu


Negative.
Didn't they teach you about "supply and demand" in Jr. College?  :D

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #91 on: December 12, 2002, 07:11:09 PM »
Wait, edit that to say "Hamburger University" instead of "Junior College".  Sorry for the weak initial insult.  :)

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #92 on: December 12, 2002, 07:13:38 PM »
LOL! whatever funked.

If you can honestly say that people will not loose their jobs and that the gasoline companies will have any reason to charge less than they do 5 minutes away...

more power to you.

Most around here know differently.

BTW... still waiting for the price of cars to drop since they started moving assembly lines to Mexico.  Its not like things are done to reduce expenses and increase profit.  Nah... nobody would want to do that.

Supply and demand.  LOL!

AKDejaVu

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #93 on: December 12, 2002, 07:20:43 PM »
If we're going to have an economic discussion and the first thing you do is declare supply & demand to be invalid, there is no point in continuing, as you appear to believe in economic laws which are, shall we say, "at odds" with prevailing theory and empirical evidence.  So I guess we will agree to disagree.

Cheers bud.  :)

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #94 on: December 12, 2002, 07:27:01 PM »
Right funked.  What I'm laughing at is you seem to think "supply and demand" is the only thing that matters.

The supply and the demand are not changing in the slightest in this scenario funked.  Just the delivery.

But... stick with that "supply and demand" thingy.  It goes well with your economics 101 argument.

AKDejaVu

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #95 on: December 12, 2002, 07:35:26 PM »
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Originally posted by Dowding (Work)
diddly this toejam. I'm outta here. For good.


lol, what made him blow his fuse? Maybe the fuse was not the proper rating.

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #96 on: December 12, 2002, 07:35:52 PM »
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The supply and the demand are not changing in the slightest in this scenario funked


*arrogant answer deleted*

The attendants add cost the the product.  Eliminating the cost of the attendants will cause the supply curve to move to the right.  Demand curve would change very little because (as we can see in 48 states where full-serve stations are all but extinct) people greatly prefer to pump their own gas rather than pay a premium.  They really aren't willing to pay more for some guy to do it for them.  The result (static demand curve and rightward supply curve shift) is equilibrium at a lower price and greater quantity.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2002, 07:49:03 PM by funkedup »

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #97 on: December 12, 2002, 07:43:27 PM »
Post funked edit:

Funked, the supply curve is based on the cost of the oil.  The expense of the delivery method is post procurement of the supply and basically just operating expenses.  Given the oportunity to cut expenses without reducing prices, do you think someone would capitalize on that?

That said, it is simply a fact that tens of thousands of people would lose their jobs wherease you can only guess as to where the price of gas will go.  And if history has anything to say on the subject... when it comes to the price of gas... down is not an option.

AKDejaVu
« Last Edit: December 12, 2002, 07:48:22 PM by AKDejaVu »

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #98 on: December 12, 2002, 07:45:02 PM »
Here's a primer on the topic:
http://www.bized.ac.uk/stafsup/options/notes/econ207.htm

I realize there are other factors involved, but supply and demand are the primary factors at work in the marketplace.  Any other factors have to be pretty darn strong to overcome them.  If you want to make an argument whereby some outside factors could overcome this, I'm all ears.  There are certainly markets where such things happen.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2002, 07:49:37 PM by funkedup »

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #99 on: December 12, 2002, 07:50:25 PM »
Funked...

I didn't say supply and demand aren't factors.  I'm saying they aren't the variables that are being changed.  Its a moot point.

The only thing is at stake is if the fuel companies were to cut thousands of jobs, would the pass on the saving or reap the benifits of increased profits.  To date, they prefer the latter.

AKDejaVu

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #100 on: December 12, 2002, 07:56:44 PM »
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Originally posted by beet1e
AKDJ - i didn't say WHY it was a law, or who made it. I was told when I went to refuel that self service is not permitted in OR.  So I was not wrong, and you were a bit of a toejam.
Kinda like you were being a toejam when you started this thread beetle? Just as you were being a toejam when you said "One thing I do know for certain is that in some states (OR and I believe NJ) you can't pump your own gas into your own car. Nanny won't allow it. You have to get the nanny-approved custodian of the pumps to do it for you. "  I do believe you said a "why" there big guy.  But stick to blind denial... it suits you.
Quote
You were the same way about that Audi80/100 4000/5000 business. I didn't get an apology that time, and I won't expect one now.
beetle... are you staga?  Cause I just re-read that thread and didn't see you post once after I did and did not see where I posted anything in regards to what you said.  This is totally out of left field.

AKDejaVu

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #101 on: December 12, 2002, 07:57:28 PM »
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Funked, the supply curve is based on the cost of the oil.

I think transportaton and distribution and point of sale costs (fixed and variable costs of the gas station) are significant.  There's too much variation between prices at different stations for this not to be true.

Quote
Given the oportunity to cut expenses without reducing prices, do you think someone would capitalize on that?


They can't capitalize on that because there is competition.  Unless they are fixing prices (and a drive around my town shows that this is definitely not happening), then somebody will always take the opportunity to drop the price and sell more fuel.  This principle is a primary reason that the supply curve is upward sloping.  It's a universally accepted (among economists) and fundamental truth of the marketplace.  If you want to argue that the supply curve is not upward sloping, then we have a special case, and I don't see an argument for that.

Quote

That said, it is simply a fact that tens of thousands of people would lose their jobs


Oh I agree about that.  But I don't believe that people deserve to keep jobs which needlessly increase the price of a product, and exist only because of archaic laws.

Also, about gasoline prices (and prices in general), don't forget about inflation.  If you adjust for inflation (which affects wages as well as prices), gasoline prices don't look so bad.  And feature-for-feature, the inflation-adjusted (real) price of autos is pretty stable as well.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2002, 07:59:38 PM by funkedup »

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #102 on: December 12, 2002, 08:00:26 PM »
DejaVu

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #103 on: December 12, 2002, 08:11:57 PM »
Any idea of the population of Oregon? If AK is right, and it would be 40,000 jobs, can you imagine the economic impact to the state? I suspect there is a very good reason to keep the law...

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #104 on: December 12, 2002, 08:16:24 PM »
Funked,

The price of gas in Oregon is no different than the price in Washington... both states with very similar demographics and populations (more in the Seattle area, but pretty well matched everywhere else).  One has self service, the other does not.

There is no indication, given history or comparison, that fuel companies would drop their prices.  Absolutely zero.

AKDejaVu