Abatic is a chute shooter

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by Oldman731
Um.  There may be a difference of opinion here.  No one has pointed out to me any reason to bail other than to maximize one's score.  One of my few, but pet, peeves is pointmongering.  Pointmongering encourages people to become vulching, ack-running, ganging alt-monkey b&zers, as the MA people are finding now with their contest.  Granted that one of the goals of MA flying seems to be amassing huge point scores, this is the CT, where rank and score are generally held to be unimportant.  So I do what I can to discourage pointmongering, and shooting chutes is one such way.  I would be delighted to shoot yours, P6E, if it weren't for the fact that generally it is you shooting me down.

- oldman

Oldman,

I admit it, I pay attention to my score.  I know it doesn't mean much, but I get a little kick out of it, so sometimes I intentionally do things that will help it.  Big deal.

Pointmongering, however, is not as much of a major motivator as you may suspect.  

Why do people bail?  The desire to live (or simulated desire).

Vulching is just plain fun.  If every vulch-kill only damaged players' scores, I wouldn't hold back, not one tiny bit.  It's way more fun than having a good score.  Some of the best laughs I've ever had in this game have been during vulching.  You really need to try it and see what it's all about.


As far as "ack-running, ganging alt-monkey b&zers, " goes, that's just plain and simple smart fighting strategy.

You can't expect all fights to be fair, 1 v 1, co-alt, co-E, same plane-type engagements.  It would be very boring if all fights were turn and burn twisty knife fights.  Those are great, but many of us like variety.

My philosophy on fighting is this:
Figure out what advantages you hold over your enemy; (Alt, speed, proximity-to-friendlies, plane-type-performance-charactoristics, proximity to AA, etc.).  Use those advantages against your enemy and don't give them up.  If you lose your advantage, figure out how to get it back.
The key, is to not give advantages up!

This is what B&Z is all about. You shouldn't use an Energy Fighter against a Angles Fighter unless you have an energy advantage.  Controll the fight, egress BEFORE your energy state gets close to equal.  Swoop attack and recover your energy.  Keep at it till you wear him down or until he screws up.

You can't blame players for flying their planes the way they were designed to be flown.

I think it was last night...
A Hellcat was running away from a pack of co-alt Jap planes, and towards his CV.  MY Japanese comrads seemed genuinly mad that he wouldn't turn back and fight.  I'm still amazed to hear players complain about such tactics.  Turning around would be nothing but stupid.  He could have hoped for one good HO, and then he would have been eaten up.  They were mad at him for not being stupid.

eskimo

[Kweassa]

It's like the HO issues.

 Generally considered "unsporting", as the results are often unsatisfactory to both sides, but if one side insists, can't really blame them for having done so.

 It's like the current PAC setup. P-38s and P-47Ds are way too fast even for a late-war plane like the N1K2 (come to think of it, the only reason the N1K2 is so powerful is because the fights are totally unhistoric in the MA. If people stick to historic tactics utilizing the best strengths, even the N1K2 isn't much up to snuff in the CT ), and seeing the guys coming in at 25k really makes one grit teeth and think "oooooh.. if we only had the Ki-84...".. but still, it's a totally legal and super-effective tactic. Can't blame them for what they are doing!

 I personally consider chute shooting waste of precious time and ammo, but it happened in real life. However, the times when I consider shooting chutes is like when a vulcher gets shot down and I feel like "take this up your prettythang, salamander!". I guess you can say chute-shooting is a way of minor insult, or reprimandation, slight provocation against your enemies. Can't really say it's wrong to shoot at chutes, but it does bring a frown upon one's face.

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

Keyapaha I think I read where the Germans pilots during WWI were refused chutes due to their superiors thinking they would run from a fight rather than fight. I think then it became an ego thing that one would be considered a chicken or something if one did wear a chute. The Japaneese may have been the same way. The chute may have sugested Fear instead of the Bravery.

[Slash27]

I feel the same as alot of you on the chute shooting. Its lame pure and simple. Its not much of a big deal in the MA as in the CT. I like some of you, try to fly the CT with some realism. I fly to live and fight another day. I know chute shooting happened in WW2 and may have been common with some air forces. But since we are not life and death enemies in here, I see no point for anyone to do it. We have enough trouble getting along as it is and adding insult to injury is pretty silly. Shooting a helpless chute is chickenshit. Thats just my opion by the way. Doesnt mean Im right or this is a personal attack on you Oldman. Its just how I feel. I think it shows some repsect for our fellow CT'ers not to do this. If the guys in his chute you've won and he's done. Move on. ( right Andi? )
      Man, I totally agree with everything Hawk said. That must be one of the seven signs or something. ( j/k:D  Hawk )

[Karnak]

Pangea described my reasons for bailing perfectly.

I very rarely check my MA score and never check my CT score.

Keyapaha,

Initially the Japanese pilots didn't take parachutes.  Then their commanders ordered them to, so they took them but didn't wear them.  Then they were ordered to wear them.  At least that is what Saburo Sakai's book led me to believe.

Sakai described one incident in which he nearly bailed out of his A6M.  His A6M was hit by a burst of fire from a B-17 and he began to to process of unstrapping so he could bail when he realized his A6M had not caught fire.

[Dukebro]

All in the CT

I just thought I would throw my $.02 in on this.

First, I'm kinda speaking from a RL perspective here, as some of you know, I am/was an F-14 pilot.  Hopefully transitioning to maritime soon:)

Here's the deal....yeah in WWII, there was chute shooting, saw an interview with an Army Air Pilot (flew mustangs I believe) admit to shooting the chute, hell shooting the guy while he was hanging in the chute, as revenge for seeing some of his buddies shot at after they bailed.  In real life it happened/s.....IMO, in the CT, complete BS.

Here's the deal on some other things (while I'm here )----
   HO's---in RL (especially in today's world of BVR missiles) if you come into a merge and NOT shooting at your enemy, your wrong. Just don't get pissed when the other guys HO"s you first....know your plane and it's armament AND the armament of the plane you are coming into the HO with (pretty easy with our non-RL icon settings)

  Fighting from an advantage--in RL, why hell not?!?....do you have a death wish and always enter fights from a disadvantage??  As a fighter pilot you do everything in your power to fight your aircraft from an advantage.  So why get pissed your fighting against some dude who took the time to get some altitude advantage?  If you want quick furballs, go to the MA.

  BnZ tactics/using an aircraft's advantages-- pisses you off also?? Why??  The pilot is using the advantages of his particular aircraft to win.....would you rather him not?  RL (again!) simple training example....I would try harder than hell not to enter into a 1 circle knife fight against an F-18 or similar type aircraft in my Tomcat.  I will never get pissed at someone who knows how to fight their aircraft to it's fullest potential.  To me that is the essence of being a good fighter pilot ( hehe, something I am absolutely not!!
I know it sucks for the IJN, planeset is just not equal, but the way I look at it is this....if you don't like it, don't play it.  Or be like me and if it sucks, just have a few beer's and have some fun!

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Dukebro
I know it sucks for the IJN, planeset is just not equal, but the way I look at it is this....if you don't like it, don't play it.  Or be like me and if it sucks, just have a few beer's and have some fun!

Nah, I'll just bide my time until we get Ki.84s.  Then we'll feed your Hellcats everything back, with interest.

[oboe]

Originally posted by pangea
[BWhen I fly in the CT one of my goals is not to get killed.  I do this not because I want to improve my rank or score but because it makes the game more realistic and immersive for me.  I find I am less likely to put myself in a hopeless situation when I play this way.  Therefore I bail if my plane is damaged to the point where it is impossible or unlikely that I would be able to fly it home.  I do not bail to improve my rank or avoid being shot down.  Not saying your way is wrong, just that this is how I play the game.

That being said, I must agree with Hawk that chute shooting is lame IMO.  In the grand scheme of things its not that big of a deal....after all this is a game and anybody who pays can play how they wish.  However, it just seems inherently wrong to shoot someone who is completely helpless, defenseless and poses absolutely no threat to anybody.

pangea [/B]

I could not have said it any better.   I usually ride it in instead of bail, though,  if I'd be captured.

[abatic]

P6EHawk

While I usually make comments to other players only on private channel, you have chosen to attack me in a public forum, so I will reply.

I do not shoot chutes!

Your squad chose to attack a field where I was the only defender.  The odds were 9 to 1.  After shooting you down, you bailed between the field and town where you remained on the ground, choosing not to end your flight.  I made two low passes over you but you still did not exit.  On the third pass I executed a spy.

It was apparent to me that you were acting as a forward air controller - directing your squad in attacking me.  I chose to end that function.

It would be helpful to the forum readers if you included all the facts in your attacks - not just those that favor your position.

You have already discovered that I squelch you, considering you personna non grata.  This is will be my only comment to you.

Abatic

[bizket]

Originally posted by abatic


It was apparent to me that you were acting as a forward air controller - directing your squad in attacking me.  

Didnt happen that way bud.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by abatic
P6EHawk

While I usually make comments to other players only on private channel, you have chosen to attack me in a public forum, so I will reply.

I do not shoot chutes!

Your squad chose to attack a field where I was the only defender.  The odds were 9 to 1.  After shooting you down, you bailed between the field and town where you remained on the ground, choosing not to end your flight.  I made two low passes over you but you still did not exit.  On the third pass I executed a spy.

It was apparent to me that you were acting as a forward air controller - directing your squad in attacking me.  I chose to end that function.

It would be helpful to the forum readers if you included all the facts in your attacks - not just those that favor your position.

You have already discovered that I squelch you, considering you personna non grata.  This is will be my only comment to you.

Abatic

in the words of the 70's Show

BURN!!  

[Samm]

Now you're in the CT becuase you want more realism right ?

If an enemy pilot bails out over enemy territory and you willingly  let him live to fight another day you're colaborating with the enemy .

Remember the pimary objective of warfare is to kill or capture the enemy, his equipment is secondary .

[Miska]

German pilots in WWI did innovate with the use of parachutes.  British superior officers, however, denied their pilots the operational use of parachutes in the mistaken belief that it would make them bail out of aircraft that were still airworthy.  I think the French had no official policy, but have not heard of any French pilots using parachutes.

Ernst Udet (second scoring ace, later Luftwaffe chief of staff until his suicide in 1941) is likely the earliest fighter pilot to have bailed in combat.  In fall 1918, his DVII collided with a british plane and he jumped, opened his parachute and made it safely to the ground.  I think a number of german recon pilots had bailed before that, but I have no references handy.

Amid all the flaming, I thought I would inject some actual content

[detch01]

I don't shoot chutes. It's like kicking a guy when he's down and that's just plain bad manners IMHO.  If you need the "win" that badly well then, you have my pity but certainly not my respect.

[Oldman731]

In the nightmare, Oldman is Tommy Lee Jones, working in the post office.  He suddenly stops, looks at his co-workers, they stare back, then the faces change, the masks are pulled off, ears and heads and bodies assume new and grotesque shape, as they reveal that they are aliens, have been aliens all along, Oldman has been working with creatures from other worlds.  He wakes with a howl, bathed in a cold sweat.  “Bailers!” he yells in the darkness, “I am surrounded by bailers!  My friends are all bailers!  Aaaahhhh!”

The next night it is different, the dream has changed, the “Night of the Living Dead” zombies are pushing at the door, Oldman pushes back, but the door is opening, he cannot hold against the supernatural force.  “Real Life,” they whisper; “good tactics,” they chuckle.  The smell of putrefying flesh overpowers him, and once again he wakes screaming in the dark.

OK, OK, I get it now.  I have offended The Immersionists.  You bail, not to accumulate points, but to experience the real-life thrill of parachuting.  You vulch, not to get easy kills, but to Take the Base.  You run to ack, not to save your worthless virtual hides, but to live to fight another day.  You cruise in the troposphere, descend to take a quick shot at a squirming target, and climb back into the blue-black edge of space because it is Good Tactics.  And yet you are offended when, hanging helpless in your lace harness, the Oldman mercilessly avenges your hapless, often helpless, victims, who, after all, were trying to get into a fight with you instead of avoiding one.  It is all very clear now.  Very clear.

Hey, it’s OK.  Really.  This town IS big enough for both of us.  I can’t understand why you would want to fight only on your own terms, or run away from danger rather than confronting it, but then you probably can’t understand why I don’t understand.  The important thing is that I don’t want to rain on your parade(s), because we’re all in this together in the war to build the CT.  The council has spoken.  My torch is out.  Henceforth I will bite my fingers and stamp my feet, but I won’t shoot at you as you float beneath your frilled parachutes.

Honest.

- Oldman (lies down in corner, sucks thumb)