Proper Main Gun For IL2

[maxtor]

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Originally posted by Karnak
We need the 37mm cannons on the Il-2. Ours only has 23mm cannons.

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Anyone in the know on this?   If the IL2 deserves the 37mm, surely it should get them post 1.11?  this is our IL2 from the help page:

Our IL2


Some other links:

http://www.petrov-petrov.si/~triglav/PEAmmo.htm

[Sakai]

Originally posted by maxtor
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Originally posted by Karnak
We need the 37mm cannons on the Il-2. Ours only has 23mm cannons.
Anyone in the know on this?   If the IL2 deserves the 37mm, surely it should get them post 1.11?

Well, the vast majority were armed as we see them.  What bothers me more about the Il2 is that it is easier to kill than most other AC.  

Sakai

[maxtor]

A.D. And did you install 37mm guns?

We had 37mm guns, 40 shells per gun. I didn't fly one of those. They didn't work out.

(above from a pilot interview - very nice with photos from IL2 cockpit)  

http://www.iremember.ru/pilots/khukhrikov/khukhrikov.html


also from that link:

A.D. How effective were rockets?

They were 82mm rockets. Of course, we fired them into the general vicinity. But at the forward positions targets were all over, so heavy was the concentration of forces and vehicles. A group would work -- one missed, another would hit the target for sure. We also carried RS-132, but only 2 of them. In that case we took less bombs -- only 200 kg. But usually we took RS-82, sometimes 16 of them.

A.D. Did you use anti-tank bombs?

Yes. We took about 280 of them. There were also 25 kg, 50 kg, and 100 kg bombs -- 4 bomb hatches, 600 kg load. We would bomb from the altitude not lower than 1400-1500 meters. If there were low clouds, 400-600 meters, but then we put in delayed fuses.
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haha look at this:
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"The gunner had a 12.7mm Berezin machine gun, 10 DAG-10 distance aviation grenades for the protection of the lower rear hemisphere. If a German appeared, you would press a switch, and a grenade would fall on a parachute and explode 150 meters away"




more stuff from that interview - great stuff..

"..4 times flew against airfields. That was scary business! They were well protected..."

A.D. They say that there were 7 killed gunners for each killed pilot, is that true?

No. Let me explain. We had 105 pilots and 50 gunners killed, why? Because the regiment fought from the beginning to the end of the war. The first half of the war in one-seater aircraft. And the second half -- in two-seaters. And most of the time, they died together. A ground attack aircraft pilot, according to the statistics, managed to fly 7-8 sorties and then died. Such were statistics.

A.D. Were you escorted by fighters?

Always. Very often during the Prussian operation we were escorted by Normandie-Niemen.

A.D. Have you ever encountered enemy aircraft?

I've never had to participate in a dogfight, but the rear gunner didn't sit without work -- after pulling out from an attack he fired at ground targets.

[Wotan]

as it was in rl. The il2 isnt armored against air. Look up the armor oit did have and where it was located. It was there to protect from groud fire and flak burst.

Heres a list of the top "Sturmovik" killers

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/stormovik.html

The top Sturmovik ace killed 88 of umm.

The wings the tail the tail gunner were all vulnerable and the il2 was in droves. Theres lw pilot accounts of of multiple Sturmoviks kill in 1 sortie. During the post war years even the Soviets gave up on this type of specialized aircraft.

The sturmoviks rep come from it ability to absorb small arms fire from the ground and its awesome rockets. For the most part it operated under conditions of air superiority. But when attacked it dropped like dirty shirt in a hamper.

[Sancho]

IL-2 is great against tanks in AH.  But you must have air superiority to be successful with it.  37mm option for guns would be nice, as well as the 16 rocket option.  Also, some more options for the 190F would be welcomed... and a Ju-87G!!

[Shiva]

Originally posted by Wotan
The sturmoviks rep come from it ability to absorb small arms fire from the ground and its awesome rockets. For the most part it operated under conditions of air superiority. But when attacked it dropped like dirty shirt in a hamper.

The problem is that the MA is a grossly ahistorical depiction of WWII combat; in the course of an hour in the MA, more Ostwinds are destroyed than were ever produced by Germany. While German formations often had extensive FlaK auxiliaries, the vast majority of it was towed artillery, vulnerable to air interdiction and with extremely limited ability to fire on the move. Additionally, GV attacks are generally conducted by a small group of, at best, loosely-coordinated vehicles, rather than organized, large-scale formations. Equally, Il-2s are commonly seen only as individual aircraft, rather than wing- or squadron-sized groups.

As a result, the air environment when attacking a group of ground vehicles more closely resembles single aircraft attacking a defended airfield than an entire attack wing attacking an armored regiment on the move. There is orders of magnitude more FlaK defense, there are many fewer targets for them to shoot at, so the Il-2s that do get used are the focus of more concentrated FlaK fire. As a result, the weaknesses of the Il-2 are highlighted, and its strengths are minimized.

I expect that the Neimen scenario, with its limitation in the number of Ostwinds that will be deployed, will give a much different view of the air-to-ground performance of the Il-2. On the other hand, I expect it to point up its depressing air-to-air performance equally as well.

[Wotan]

Exactly Oep


I brought that point up in the last "I thought the il2 was armored" thread.

Heres another questions:

Who thinks the 190a8 190f8 and Ju87d-3 are "armored"?

99% of the time you  are fighting ostwinds that until recently carried ap rounds.

 The Il2 when sighted by the enemy was squeak slapped out of the sky like all the other "specialized" attack planes.

These attack planes needed to operate in an area of atleast temp air superiority.

Any percieved weakness that you see in the il2 is universal across the whole planeset.

[Pyro]

I think you misquote HT.  The .50s on the GVs are different from those in the planes, but not for gameplay purposes.  It's because they were different.  The M2 on GVs utilize a 45" barrel vs a 36" barrel on the aircraft M2.  That translates to slightly higher muzzle velocity and hitting power.

[Wotan]

You maybe correct I did search and could not find a direct quote so I will edit the above to stop any potential whines that spring from it.

[brady]

Aircraft are also Way more effective aganst GV's in AH than in Real life, seams only right that in light of that the Osty be more effective if for no other reason than a target rich enviourment exists for them, and those dumm dums who spawn brainlessly onto runways with osty's covering the spawn points. 90% of the kills I get in the Osty VS flying targets are because the person piolting it was stupid and flew right at me.

      The osty is not the problem it's the Air Ground relationship that is, the Osty is a symptom.

[Urchin]

I always see people say "All the kills I get in a Osty are because people are stupid and fly right at me!".  


And every single time, I ask myself.... how else are you supposed to kill them?  We ain't got any laser guided ordinance... you HAVE to fly right at something for some period of time if you want to kill it.

[Vermillion]

Also the .50's mounted on Vehicles were typically set to fire at a slower Rate of Fire than the ones in Aircraft.

[brady]

Urchin, your blind hatred of the Osty has rendered you incable of being objective about it.

[Ecliptik]

Well, the short answer is, you don't attack Osties unless you have ordinance.  The Ostie is also incapable of firing directly upward.  I've seen a number of people execute perfectly vertical divebombs on them which are very effective in destroying them while remaining immune to fire, though this takes practice.  I've also had it done to me a few times.