Mika Hakkinen comeback (rally)

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Mika has been my favorite driver almost since he started - always loved his style of driving.  

My distaste for Schumacher has to do with how he drives.  Recently, as has been stated, he has matured a GREAT deal, but do any of you remember his "earlier days?"  The controversial "accident" between him and Villeneuve?  It is well known that the two drivers HATE eachother... but that incendent where Schumacher ran Vill off the road in an attempt to rob him of points was total crap.

Schumacher doesnt have an ounce of class - and hes racing against maniacs (Montoya) who cant stay on the track,  worn out drivers (Coulthard), and great drivers with poor cars (Villeneuve).

Im taking a bit of a liking to Raikkonen - that kid has no fear and shows GREAT potential - it will be interesting to see where he is in 5 years.

Fug Ferrari.

For controversial "accident" see a certain Aryton Senna (Prost in Japan anyone?). But Senna is held in reverence?

Still ...Schumacher's first world championship wasn't even in a Ferrari. And even then , when he first joined Ferrari - that car was a complete dog - but still competed well against the McLaren's, and Williams and pushed both teams to the limit.
His first Championship for Ferrari, that car was still behind  McLaren's reliablility, but he still won.

He's maybe not as good as Fangio or even Jim Clark , but he's the best since then.

5 times world champion, and no-ones come even close the last few years but thats more to the class of the man, especially since Mika couldn't hack it anymore.

maniacs (Montoya) who cant stay on the track,

JPM will be world champ one day, as soon as he learns to drive around the track...not slide it like he's still in a crap indy car.

and great drivers with poor cars (Villeneuve).

In '97 Shuey showed that he could push a bad car to almost win the championship, whilst Villeneuve had the best car of the season in a williams.

 Tronsky

[Jochen]

McLaren had toejam cars for several years. Schu should be grateful for this and grateful for the fact that Mika got bored with F1.

Got bored or couldn't take it anymore. Anyone rememer him crashing because of stupid mistake at Monza when he had 10 sec lead? He ran off to woods to cry and/or puke. I admit the pressures must have been stellar but still not a sign of great race driver.

The last two years Schu is a man racing a bunch of gokart boys. Not a single one of those clowns could carry the balaclava of Prost, Mansell, Senna, Piquet, Hill, etc.

And that is Schumachers fault if opposition cant get their toejam together?

At the moment Schumacher equals championships with Fangio and I am quite hopeful that after next year he will hold the record alone. It is quite a feature. The man has been racing for 10 years and if I remember correctly he has always been in top 3 when the season has ended. Of course he has been number 1 whopping 5 times.

Everyone admires Senna even he did few quite rude tricks. Why double standards dealing with Schumacher?

[funkedup]

Everyone admires Senna even he did few quite rude tricks. Why double standards dealing with Schumacher?

Senna is dead, and people tend to be respectful of that.  They might remember him more fondly than if he were alive.  
I only remember one rude trick from Senna, and he was just paying back Prost who did it one year earlier.  Schu has done the same thing twice, but with no provocation.  Plus there have been many rules infractions by Schu's teams over the years.  Basically the guy has a long track record as a cheater.  He has been punished of course, but a cheater is a cheater.  And the roadkill last year (WWF style fake racing between Schu and Rubens) has soured many.  So that's why there is a different perception of Schu than Senna.

And that is Schumachers fault if opposition cant get their toejam together?

Of course it's not his fault.  But he is fortunate that the other teams have only these clowns to send out against him.  I think these years will be remembered as the absolute bottom of F1 history.

[StSanta]

F1 has lost millions of viewers lately. Schumacher is an incredible driver, but as Funked says, he and his team cheats where and when they can. Occassionally where they can't and they get caught.

Most stupid thing Schu did beyond the Villeneuve incidet was givuing Rubens the victory before an American crowd. Europeans understand politics in the teams, but Americans are more prone to disliking such behaviour. Stupid, especially as Rubens had a comfortable lead over no. 3 anyhow.

The F1 officials have said there'll be changes to the sport so they can draw more viewers again. Schumis dominance has taken away most of the excitement - for me and for millions of others. Not his fault though. He's doing his job, and he's the best there is at it at the moment.

[Kratzer]

Dude, the Mitsubishi rally team sucks chunks lately.  Their car is too damn big.  From what I read, they want to roll out the Colt, but it'll take a couple years to develop it.  Just like Skoda switching to a smaller car with the name I can't remember.

Sounds like they will be back in 2004 with the Lancer again though.

[Staga]

Dude, The drivers Mitsubishi hired suck.
"A Hired gun" whipped their arses in a first leg of New Zealand rally and ended in fifth position after first leg just after 3 Peugeots and one Subaru.

[funkedup]

Paasonen = 2 Rallies = 2 Totalled Cars = Funky Not Impressed.  

[Staga]

He is just like McRae and Grönlund when they were young. Very good and fast driver who has to learn when to rise your foot from the gas pedal

Another driver who is a rising star is Marko Märtin from Estonia. Pretty young driver (born 1975) who, just like Paasonen (also born '75), has still plenty of racing years left.

Juha Kankkunen, born 1959, is still hanging in a top-ten even with a car like Hyundai Accent. 25 years of racing and still going fast.
Carlos Sainz, born 1962 and racing from 1980, can be usually found from top five.
Even Marcus Grönholm is pretty old fart when compared to Paasonen and Märtin, born in 1968 which makes him seven years older than those two.

Let's give those guys couple years time to find their limits and we're going to see nice fights

[Staga]

btw nice pics, http://gamma.nic.fi/~globe/rally/paradise/index.html

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by funkedup
Basically the guy has a long track record as a cheater.  He has been punished of course, but a cheater is a cheater.  And the roadkill last year (WWF style fake racing between Schu and Rubens) has soured many.  So that's why there is a different perception of Schu than Senna.

Cheating...how?

They race to TEAM orders, and it was Ferrari's order that Barrichello move over for Shuey. Barrichello is the number 2 driver, and until the end of this year didn't come close to sheuy.
And Micheal was right...if Ferrari, and himself lost the championship because they didn't take care of buisness then, how stupid would've they been.

People forget that DC, Mika and McLaren pulled the same trick waaaaay before Ferrari did.

Senna is dead, and people tend to be respectful of that. They might remember him more fondly than if he were alive.
I only remember one rude trick from Senna, and he was just paying back Prost who did it one year earlier

There was at least 3 different occasions of incidents between Senna and Prost, the portugese GP '88, Suzuka '89/'90. Not to mention the bad blood between team mates in McLaren where they both broke racing agreements.

 Tronsky

[funkedup]

Originally posted by -tronski-
Cheating...how?

MS has been DQed from 4-5 races for various infractions.  Ramming other cars, passing and blocking on the formation lap, illegal ride height, etc.  Cheating.

There was also a famous incident where his Benetton car was found to have traction control hidden in the software, even though traction control was banned at the time.  The team was not punished because of a "gray area" in the rules.  There have been numerous other incidents of this sort as well.

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by funkedup
MS has been DQed from 4-5 races for various infractions.  Ramming other cars, passing and blocking on the formation lap, illegal ride height, etc.  Cheating.

There was also a famous incident where his Benetton car was found to have traction control hidden in the software, even though traction control was banned at the time.  The team was not punished because of a "gray area" in the rules.  There have been numerous other incidents of this sort as well.

The team was found, not Shuey.

Benetton were fined $500,000 for their failure to obey the Stewards' orders at Silverstone and a further $100,000 for being tardy in producing 'source codes' for their electronic systems, which the FIA had been demanding since the San Marino Grand Prix. Benetton were found to have a system which could be in breach of the regulations. In essence, the regulations prevented computers controlling the cars; but the FIA found no evidence that the system had been used.

In '94 his points were: 66 to Hills 29, before Silverstone where Benetton told him to stay out after being black flagged. Then after spa where his car's plank under the Benetton had not conformed to the regulations (7mm in some places compared to the allowable 9mm). After  missing 2 races, and having been suspended from a further 2, he was STILL a pt. ahead of Hill.

His last 'controversia'l season was the end of '97, but for a Cheat his record is still impressive:

5 F1 championships '94, '95, '00, '01, '02
64 Wins
945 Pts.
50 poles
114 podiums

This year 144pts, 2nd place '77pts!

 Tronsky

[Masherbrum]

Hey Senna!

I saw Ayrton in 85 for the Detroit GP.  That Lotus was BY FAR the most beautiful F1 car I have seen to this date.  What made it even better was the Yellow Helmeted genius piloting it.  I think he blew his gearbox out and ended up with a DNF.  


FUTHERMORE: "Still ...Schumacher's first world championship wasn't even in a Ferrari. And even then , when he first joined Ferrari - that car was a complete dog - but still competed well against the McLaren's, and Williams and pushed both teams to the limit.
His first Championship for Ferrari, that car was still behind McLaren's reliablility, but he still won.

He's maybe not as good as Fangio or even Jim Clark , but he's the best since then.

5 times world champion, and no-ones come even close the last few years but thats more to the class of the man, especially since Mika couldn't hack it anymore. "

Um, Senna was riding in a McLaren with the GROSSLY UNDERPOWERED Ford engine.  He managed to win 4 races against stiff competition.

MS didn't know about the software?  Do you really think we are that stupid Tronski, take your head out, please.   He didn't know about his teammate slowing down EXCESSIVELY because he is the spoiled brat of F1?  He has NO CLASS!  

And how dare you EVEN remotely suggest he is the best driver since Jim Clark.  Senna aside (he is the greatest), Prost, Lauda, Piquet, Mansell, De Angelis, could STILL beat that punk.

I now follow Ralf Schumacher and Juan Montoya now.  They have class.  

I am also in agreement with the person who said these years will be remembered as the worst.  At least your the champion of that MS, nothing to be proud of.

Karaya2

[-tronski-]

And how dare you EVEN remotely suggest he is the best driver since Jim Clark.  Senna aside (he is the greatest), Prost, Lauda, Piquet, Mansell, De Angelis, could STILL beat that punk.

F1 Racing Magzine  named Schumacher the 2nd best of all time behind Jim Clark last year....I would suggest they are a far better judge than you and I.

I am also in agreement with the person who said these years will be remembered as the worst. At least your the champion of that MS, nothing to be proud of.

When you dominate so , it's easy to make everyone else look ordinary

I now follow Ralf Schumacher and Juan Montoya now. They have class.

Yeah, like these two wouldn't knock back a drive in the number 2 Ferrari


 Tronsky