Author Topic: German translation...  (Read 446 times)

Offline K98k

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German translation...
« on: December 20, 2002, 02:58:28 PM »
please.  I aquired these with other pieces of history dealing with a German rifle, an American soldier and the child pictured here in this ID book.  I suppose I could try babelfish but hey then I couldn't share it.

I suspect the american soldier may have taken the rifle from this kid but not sure as of yet.  I even have the American soldiers discharge papers immunization records and dog tag too, but I can understand those :)
« Last Edit: December 20, 2002, 11:19:03 PM by K98k »

Offline Gunthr

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German translation...
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2002, 04:00:41 PM »
Bump


I hope you share the full story of your research, K98K.
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Redwing

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German translation...
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2002, 05:27:59 PM »
Ok, I'll try.

The handwritten text is in "Suetterlin", an old german handwriting that was taught only until like 1940 in german schools, making it pretty damn hard to read for younger germans. My grandma still writes that way though, which is why I can read it pretty good.
Anyway, here's my attempt:



Cover Page:

ID Book
NSDAP (National Socialist German Workers Party)
Hitler Youth
Mülheim (Ruhr) Area [western germany, close to Duisburg]

The ID book is to be returned to the Bannführung (?) through official channels on request.

Invalid as of ____  reason ____



Page 1 (2nd image, left page)

____Heinz Otten_____


Signature validated by:

Name: ____Busemann_____ (not sure about this, name might be incorrect)
Rank: ____[can't read that at all]____



Page 2 (2nd image, right page)

Particulars
Surname: Otten
Name: Heinz
Occupation: [none, obviously]
Residence: Mülheim (Ruhr)
Address: Dimbeck 55 [used a phone book to figure that one out, the street still exists today. Should be correct]
DOB: 6/18/1924  born in: Mülheim
Was appointed to Hitler Youth on 20. April 1938 and assigned to Group Gef.1/159 [Gef probably short for Gefolgschaft = Group].
He was admitted on [date is hard to read, 4/11/30 maybe?] by the RJF [Reichsjugendführung, roughly: Reich Youth Leadership]. Membership # 3042273

Mülheim (Ruhr), the 17th [May?] 1938
The Group Leader
Mülheim, Gefolgschaft .1/159

[2 signatures I can't read and the group leader's rank designation]



Page 3, here it's getting interesting

Stammrolle [hard to translate. It's a whole bunch of indepth personal information, just see below]
Employer: Ulrich [?]
Employer's residence: Bruchstr. 2 [used the phone book again, not entirely sure on this one though]
Employer's phone #: [none]
Phone #: [Heinz's one, apparently he doesn't have one though]
Motor Vehicle: [none]   Bike: Yes
Driving License for: [nothing]
Member of the [?]-group: [nope]
DJ [Deutsche Jugend = German Youth] Achievement badge Nr: ___ Date: ___
HJ [Hitler Youth] Iron Achievement badge Nr: ___ Date: ___
HJ [Hitler Youth] Bronze Achievement badge Nr: ___ Date: ___
HJ [Hitler Youth] Silver Achievement badge Nr: ___ Date: ___

note: these achievement badges probably refer to passed tests in sport exercises, swimming, running, you name it. Obviously, Heinz wasn't quite an achiever when he joined up with the HJ.

Landjahr from [date] ___ until ___ Location ___
Landhilfe from ___ until ___ Location ___
Landdienst from ___ until ___ Location ___

These 3 lines require some explanation as well. "Landjahr" refers to the mandatory service every HJ member was required to complete in the agricultural sector.
Landdienst was a sub organization of the HJ, which involved four years of agricultural education and training.
How "Landhilfe" differs from "Landjahr", I have no idea. Google should be able to help :)

Membership Book #: __9__
HJ Leadership ID card #: ____
Admitted into the NSDAP on: ____
Membership #:____



Page 4

This page isn't of much interest, it has blanks for future transfers to another HJ Group. Obviously, Heinz left Gef 1/159 in May 1939 and joined up with Gefolgschaft 2/447, which was validated by the Leader of Gefolgschaft 4/447, Mr R. Schmitt.



Pages 5 and 6

The white sheet covers the pages "Complaints and Penalties" [pg.5] and "Detachments" [pg.6]. The white sheet itself is a confirmation of Heinz's joining up with the Jungvolk [the youth organization for 10-14 year olds]. The text goes as follows:

The boy Heinz Otten,
Mülheim (Ruhr), Dimbeck 55
born on 6/18/1924 in Mülheim (Ruhr),
profession student, is hereby being informed to
have been assigned to the Deutsches Jungvolk as part of the Hitlerjugend, Group 19.

Below is the signature of the Group Leader and a date that appears to be 6/13/1936, which would make that confirmation sheet older than the rest of the id card.
This would make sense though, for the ID card seems to be the one Heinz received when he left the Jungvolk and first joined the HJ at age 14 (born in 1924, ID card dates to May 1938).



Page 7

This page is titled "Fees", probably membership fees. Assuming every stamp represents a paid fee, Heinz kept paying until July 1939.



Does that help?

regards,
Tobias

Offline hawk220

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German translation...
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2002, 05:43:04 PM »
wow! what a great piece of history!

Offline hawk220

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German translation...
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2002, 05:45:02 PM »
now that I think about it, I have my Dad's and Grandfolks' WWII ration books.. they would get little stamps with things like tanks and planes on them, and would spend them on butter and milk and such. Anyone else have family WWII memorabilia?

Offline senna

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German translation...
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2002, 05:53:20 PM »
Wow, that was fast.

:)

Offline K98k

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German translation...
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2002, 09:18:55 PM »
thank you for the translation, it's copied and pasted for future reference.   I'll get some pics of the Mod98 rifle soon it's in fantastic shape stock has the usual dings and dents and matches rifle.  The iron is great, no rust, rifling is sharp and high.  Right now I have it disassembled for cleaning.  Hope to sight'er in before Christmas.


next I want is a WWII era U.S. M1 Garand and a Russian SVT 40 and I'll be happy, no imports mind you ;)


other documents and photos are at http:// these will only be up for a few more hours.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2002, 11:00:22 PM by K98k »

Offline K98k

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German translation...
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2002, 10:57:28 AM »
Here's my new rifle :)

btw if Mr. Heinz Otten is still living at Dimbeck 55 tell him I might have his rifle.

Offline Redwing

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German translation...
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2002, 11:14:40 AM »
Hi!

I just checked the phone book again, there is still a Heinz Otten living in Mülheim. Not in Dimbeck 55 though, but that doesn't mean he's not the previous owner of your rifle. There's a H. Otten too, also not living in Dimbeck 55.

Both might be worth checking out, want me to call them?

Offline capt. apathy

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German translation...
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2002, 11:54:51 AM »
I have lots of ww2 memorabilia.

work manuals from my grandmother when she worked in the portland shipyards.

sea trial logs from many 'liberty ships' (my grandfather ran many through their first trials)

the handout given to my father when he was loaded onto a japanese transport as a pow.  listing rules, and that he would be killed for breaking any of them.

one of my favorites (but I don't have it personaly, my father has it but it will be left to me) is a letter from Yamamoto (sp?) declairing the taking of Wake isl.  to be one of the most humiliating operations he ever took part in.

my father tells me he at the time he was freed he had a set of swords (origanal pre-war,  hand tempered, not gas tempered) but as he was loaded onto the hospital ship a navy officer decided he wanted them more :mad:

Offline K98k

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German translation...
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2002, 08:40:13 PM »
The known history of this firearm is a short one.

I recently received it from someone here in the United States who purchased it at an estate auction a few years ago.   Apparently this gentleman was more interested in the rifle and didn't pursue any information regarding the documentation.  According to him the documents were in the same box the rifle came in.

If you need to see the documents again look at http://mywebpages.comcast.net/winyah999/

Neither of us are sure if the soldier in front of the Eifle tower is John W. Histed or what significance the picture of the (German?)artillery piece is.  The Honorable Discharge papers and immunization record identify John W. Histed.  The certification authorizing the return of a captured rifle matches the rifle serial numbers and identifies Mr. Histed as the new owner.

The big question is why the armband and identification of a German soldier were in the same box with rifle?  Could these two young men have crossed paths during or soon after the war?  If so what were the circumstances?  Did a young man named Otten Heinz once carry this rifle?

These are the only questions that come to mind right now.  If based on this small amount of information you still want to call or have some of your own questions it would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,