Lethality in Main Arean vs new Mission Arena

[Wilbus]

They're working on it for FB I believe, and Oleg and Co. has always been very up front as to how it will perform. Really though that's not the point of this thread so lets not get distracted.

Thanks Jab, I hope my comment on the P51 didn't sound rude, if it did it wasn't my point at all.

Also know this, I do not in anyway think that IL2 has a perfect FM compared to AH or the other way around but I do think that the gunnery and dammage modell in IL2 is FAR superior to that of AH aswell as makes for a more real feal and IL2 gunnery sets a new mark for all flight sims when it comes to that.

IMO HTC should do what they can to update the (3 or 4 year old?) dammage modell and make it more like IL2.

Let's face it, 3 years neither of us had good enough computers nor connections to handle this kind of dammage modell, even offline games only at the time couldn't handle it.

The computer technology has gotten so far in these past years that it would be nothing short of a small tradgedy if HTC with its highly skilled crew didn't take advantage of it and made a dammage modell and gunnery modell that is more realistic.

So... sorry for going off the subject some. As for lowering lethality in the mission arena, I don't think I'd like it, however I'd really like to try, can't say anything untill I have. But ones again, I think the problem goes so much deaper then just changing the lethality settings in an arena.

As for bomber formations, they drones seam to die so much easier then the player it self, often have I taken out both drones in one pass using a P51 or other 50 cal bird. I've used 30mm and hit the player 10 times and only made him smoke, I'd hit alot of 50 cal in several passes and only made him smoke. Drones are about as durable as paper planes IMO.

[Hristo]

It seems that HTC team focuses on gameplay & fun factor, rather than overall realism of the sim.

And it shows. AWACS type of radar, current hit sprites, simplified damage model, simplified engine management, ammo indicators, questionable 6 view, auto trim, auto take off etc. are very far from reality but serve their purpose in increasing gameplay.

The result:

After couple of hours AH H2H I am having fun. I only remotely feel being a part of some WW2 engagement, instead it feels like some "shoot 'em any way you can" with wings. High fun factor, some things are even funny (weird collision model, for example). But the game has departed from realism.

After couple of hours in Il-2, however, I feel exhausted. Constant scanning of the sky, constant IFF lookout, managing your engine, ammo. Very intense and demanding sim. Attention to detail is incredible (try to attack an enemy truck column - drivers jump out of vehicles and run for cover).

So, if you are looking for fun, go AH. If you want realism, go Il-2. IMO.

[Ecliptik]

I believe that the problem in AH with lethality is not neccessarily that planes are too easy to bring down, but that the pilots are far more accurate gunners than those of the real war.

As J_A_B said, we are in the comfort of our warm homes, completely at ease.  The real pilots were in a turbulent, loud airplane, often in freezing temperatures, undergoing real g-forces, battling with fatigue, fear, and an unruly stick as much as with their enemies.  

Watching all kinds of guncam footage over and over makes you realize how poor most WWII really were at hitting other aircraft.  There were the exceptional aces with dozens of kills, but they were, well... exceptional.

I recall German pilots being quoted as saying that heavy bombers could be brought down with 3 or 4 30mm hits, or about a dozen 20mm hits, but keep in mind that the average German pilot was lucky if he could land ANY hits in a single pass.

The other thing is that we sim jocks have FAR more combat and gunnery experience than anyone from WWII did, not even the greatest aces come close.   We don't die if we get shot down, so we have a lot more practice.

[Hristo]

Yes, but same pilots in AH and Il-2 achieve VERY different results.

After WB, AH was refreshing. Before an elevator damage was losing both elevators. AH actually divided the damage so you can lose only half elevator, along with multiple fuel tanks instead of one. But, essentially, it is still old "binary" damage model.

No loss of performance due to damage, no progressive damage (except fire).

More advanced things like penetration of both AP and HE rounds are way out of reach of this model, it seems.

[Wilbus]

Yes, but same pilots in AH and Il-2 achieve VERY different results.

After WB, AH was refreshing. Before an elevator damage was losing both elevators. AH actually divided the damage so you can lose only half elevator, along with multiple fuel tanks instead of one. But, essentially, it is still old "binary" damage model.

No loss of performance due to damage, no progressive damage (except fire).  

Exactly.

[Ecliptik]

I'd like to see progressive damage too, but from the standpoint of a programmer, it is not as easy as you guys think to implement.  I'm sure HiTech has the idea shelfed in his head somewhere while he works on a million other things.

[BenDover]

Originally posted by Ecliptik
I believe that the problem in AH with lethality is not neccessarily that planes are too easy to bring down, but that the pilots are far more accurate gunners than those of the real war.

If that was true, then how come in both il-2 and B17 2, i couldn't hit toejam at first, only when i got close enough to see the pilot giving me the finger did i have a chance of hitting and doing some damage


Although i haven't played Il-2 that much, i have played b17 2 alot, b17 2's damage is quite random at times, sometimes you can light them up and they'd still fly, but other times it only takes a few mg hits to make them explode, usualy when they have a DT on.

[Shane]

Originally posted by BenDover
If that was true, then how come in both il-2 and B17 2, i couldn't hit toejam at first, only when i got close enough to see the pilot giving me the finger did i have a chance of hitting and doing some damage

you're just proving the point.  how many times did you die before you got good enough to even hit the other plane?  keep at it and before you know it, you'll be getting hits from further out.

it's all about practice making perfect.

[Wilbus]

I shot down 5 fighters my first ever sortie in AH. Kind of speaks for the easy gunnery, however that was like 3 years ago now, the DM was very good for the time being. Now, the DM is very bad and outdated while the only "modern" game that has a worse DM is WB3.

Not sure how WWII-Online's DM is as I haven't played it much.