Author Topic: Why is it...?  (Read 2758 times)

Offline Furious

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Why is it...?
« on: December 24, 2002, 02:32:34 PM »
What is it that makes the LW so tightly wound?

No other group of folks consistently pops a cork and spews on the bbs.  No other group consistently whines or squeakes as much.  I know the leather causes rashes, but are the panties too tight as well?  

Does being a self proclaimed LW make you uptight, or do uptight people gravitate to the LW, and why?

It’s a frikken weird phenomenon.  Might even make a good thesis for an undergrad psych student.


F.

Offline Cobra

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Re: Why is it...?
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2002, 02:40:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furious
as well?  

Does being a self proclaimed LW make you uptight, or do uptight people gravitate to the LW,  

F.


Chicken or the egg.........

Cobra

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Why is it...?
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2002, 02:45:32 PM »
I see just as many complaints for japanese planes, US planes and brit planes.  If you are willing to be objective and just look at the BBS you will see that.  There is just as much reason for any LW request as for any other plane request, yet people just ignore that.  

The difference is in the reaction, and basically people here sense that the "LW side" is the one to pick on and make fun of- this is no different than in any social grouping of people, there is always the one to pick on. So whenever a LW question is posted it's imediately seen in that light. For example once I posted very reasoned point by point totaly cool-headed undramatic list of easily documented grapics errors on the Tiger I model, I was immediately attacked as a whiner.   Mitsu posted some requests that Ki-61 be changed, with no proof, and he got a congradutlatory message from Hitech. F4UDOA posts whines all the time. The P38 guys post on the BBS like it was some sort of flying death machine, that will never be done "right" in AH.  

Now there have been a few dramatic types like RAM and manodble, but again you all seem to focus on them and ignore all the other plainly wierd and loudmouthed types in this community.

Thats how I see it.

Offline Cobra

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Why is it...?
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2002, 02:48:57 PM »
Wow, Furious, that didn't take long to prove the observation, but still, the causel affect remains allusive!

Cobra

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2002, 02:51:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Cobra
Wow, Furious, that didn't take long to prove the observation, but still, the causel affect remains allusive!

Cobra


Correct! You proved my point exactly. My post is immediately made fun of..   I think that also answers your question cobra.  

Thanks, this was too easy. :D

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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Why is it...?
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2002, 02:59:28 PM »
No, the difference is in how it's put forth.

I have yet to see F4UDOA or Mitsu start off by asking for something to be looked at, then half way through it turns into another (insert F4U or Japanese fan here) saying "it'll never be fixed because [conspiracy against that plane, conspiracy against that group while favoring another group, planes performing too well without any proof while their planes are performing too poorly without any proof, their planes intentionally being dumbed down while the "other side's" planes aren't]...

That's just a small list, I have witnessed many more threads that turn into a coniption fit because they think they deserve some sort of special attention... and the times they have been answered by the man himself... still can't be satisfied and continue to press the issue inserting unfounded accusations, conspiracies and other nonsense.

Oh, and yeah... "The SpitIX is a UFO" <--- Ain't seen no proof, only seen poopy diapered LW fans crying about it tho.
-SW

Offline poopster

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Why is it...?
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2002, 03:06:37 PM »
The 190 here compared to it's counterpart in WB is a breath of fresh air.

But then again so is the F4U.

After 3 years in a 190 over there, I'm flyin the Hog here.

And doing badly I might add :D

Yes LW'ers are wound tight...

Go figure, I have scars from the leather..

Offline Furious

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Why is it...?
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2002, 03:07:35 PM »
Grun,

Don't give me that persecution crap.  I've been there, you know that, and have seen it first hand.

There certainly are other whiners on the bbs, but none are as consistent as the LW contingent.


Separate requests from whines.  All whines are not requests and all requests are not whines.

Request:  It appears that the stall speed of this plane is too high.  I have documentation indicating a lower stall speed.  Please look into it.

Whine:  fukin spits don't stall when my plane is spiraling outa control.  Kurt Tank wouldn't design some roadkill plane that couldn't kick a toejamfire's bellybutton with one wing tied behind its back.  But you know that Pyro hates the LW so no fuking way it'll ever get fixed.


A lot of LW fans post lots a good info, but usually taint it with some roadkill slant or comment.


LW is a separate culture in all flight sims.  Why?


F.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2002, 03:20:20 PM by Furious »

Offline brady

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Why is it...?
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2002, 03:21:35 PM »
I would half to say GRUNHERZ is right as far as I can see, at least most of the time at anyrate.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2002, 03:25:11 PM »
I have seen widewing or Admiral virgil hilts and other allied P38 devotees whine about P38 never being right because the developers just cant ever know how really good P38 is.

And there are plenty of LW requests with just data and simple
question that are immediately attacked and madefun of. Why?

And with "LW" requests or comments you are only minutes (3 minutes in this tread" from being mad fun of or being called a whiner. So by that fact all LW requests are treated as whines.

Why isnt Fester called an allied whiner. What about all those P38 whines?

And dont give me that spit 9 crap, everyone complains about it. How about all those allied LA7 whines or Niki whines? Why forget those. There are plenty of  real "P51" isnt so bad vs commie backward LA7, no way!  And all the Spit 14 whines.


I am telling you plain and simple the difference s in the reaction. Nearly every LW request with data and an even-handed tone is quickly attacked , made fun of and dissmised out of hand. After a little bit of that well meaning people will get pissed and hostile - simple human nature.

Thats the answer Furious, its obvious.

Offline Esme

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Why is it...?
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2002, 03:41:10 PM »
Dunno about the rest, Furious, but I suspect the reason the LW tends to be tight-knit in most sims is because it tends to be in a minority. Add in the occasional idiot accusations of being "Nazis", then  that in organised games there's usually some folks who much prefer flying Allied who have to come fly with the Axis to make up the numbers, and if we share with them anything that we think MIGHT give us an edge, then the Allies will obviously get to know of it and be able to counter it all the faster... (shrugs).  We also very often end up fighting superior numbers even when a game isnt planned that way... that tends to weld folks together.

When one looks at the planesets of various flight sims over there years, I personally think there is a justifiable case for saying there has been a degree of bias against Axis-side planes, at least in terms of plane types offered.  Actually, it's probably even more true to say that there's been a bias in favour of the US (in regard of variety of planes made available to fly) at the expense of everyone else, in the past.  Even the RAF has been treated as a poor relation...

Of course, there are some cogent points as to why this might be the case - most games still dont adequately deal with night flying and night combat, and so types that spent the bulk of their operational career flying at night have tended to get left out (so long, RAF bombers... - and some LW ones).  Games in this genre have tended to take fighter combat as their starting point and then tacked everything else on, AND started with something like MA play, which militates against planes that cant survive well in that kind of environment, especially in the days before most sims gave us at least some degree of usable cloud cover.  But doing things that way doesnt create a game that mimicks WW2 air combat; it allows people to have simulated aerial fights using simulated WW2 kit, not quite the same thing. It's taken a looong time for the industry to show signs of starting to overcome that bad (but perhaps understandable) start. Sorry, I digress..

My main complaint with WW2 combat flight sim publishers has been the dearth of Axis level-bombers. I look forward to my first online Battle of Britain re-enaction where I can fly a LW level bomber of the period OTHER than a Ju88. Happily, it looks as though AH is progressing and expanding to the point where it can sustain a number of types typical of various parts of the real war that don't survive well in the anarchic madness that is the MA.  Fingers crossed, I'll get to fly a Heinkel 111 or - dare I even hope it?! - a Dornier 17 in a BoB game one of these years.   Lovely though the Ju88 is, just the chance of a change now and then is good. The Ju87 doesnt cut it because its not a level bomber, and the Ar234 doesnt because it's a late-war jet (although also a thoroughly lovely plane to fly - in simulation in AH, at least!)

I just wish we could muffle the "need for speed" fighter whiners a tad... - but then, us bomber specialists tend to have more patience than some of the fighter types.  Just as well, I suppose... (smile...)

Anyway - for what it's worth, there's my tuppence ha'penny on why us Luftwoffles are close-knit.

Esme

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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Why is it...?
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2002, 04:24:45 PM »
Sure is easy to look at the board objectively when you are already biased to one side, right Grun?

No, indeed it is in the matter many people present it.. and if it isn't them, it's one of the other huffy LW players that will add in their 2cent crapola about special treatment, conspiracies or just off the wall BS and it sends the thread down in flames.

It isn't the well thought out requests that get hammered, if it were... you'd find links and prove it.
-SW

Offline SOB

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Why is it...?
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2002, 04:25:42 PM »
Post some examples, Grun, because I just don't believe you.


SOB
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2002, 04:40:04 PM »
Oh yea nobody is biased, specially not you SW or SOB. Maybe we should just all shut up and let the unbiased discuss this.

SOB there are plenty of people here who whine if you dont see that then what can I do. My point is there are no threads asking why everyone whines, just a thread that asks why the so called LW contingent whines.

A perfect example of that is the P38. They whined and whined about flaps, armor, toughness. Some have done exactly like Furious accuses LW, they say there is a conspiiracy against P38 because aw shucks HTC just cant ever know how really really good P38 really was, really. Where was all the outrage for months of allied P38 whining?

And there is example of my point in this very thread. The first response immideately made fun of what I said and it only too 3 minutes.

Every type of pilot  in this game asks for something for their favorite plane, sometimes they have data and sometimes they dont but it's a common fact of life on the BBS that a LW question thread will be made fun of or attacked.  Or do you think the threads just turn hostile and nasty because everthing is OK?

Shit I bet none of you even notice all the nastyness, it's become so commonplace that you guys might even remember a LW thread
if it didnt turn nasty from attacks.

Everyone whines, LW, USA, RAF, Japanese, VVS everyone. Its just become so common to attack the LW whines that nobody cares bout the others.

And there is no conspiracy, no LW type ever came up with that idea. In fact the only people who ever say that are the folks who make fun of LW questions or comments, usually one of the first responses in a LW plane question is a smart bellybutton put-down "its the conspiracy again".

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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Why is it...?
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2002, 04:44:48 PM »
Yeah Grun... when they make the accusation that their aircraft are intentionally being dumbed down while allied aircraft aren't... that ain't a conspiracy they brewed up... that's a... a...

Yeah....

And how am I biased? I'd like to see you come up with this one.

Point still stands, find us a thread that has only facts and data before LW people get accused of luftwhining or whatever.
-SW