Author Topic: Base capture in BOB needs to go  (Read 1279 times)

Offline delta

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Base capture in BOB needs to go
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2003, 05:37:27 PM »
ergRTC,

Well, very good. Thanks for your comment.

I'm glad to hear that others saw and enjoyed the same series.

IMO, the Bob was the best one of the whole series.

Second best was Battle of Midway.


Delta aka fGonzo

Offline Miska

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Base capture in BOB needs to go
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2003, 06:21:26 PM »
I must also speak up for disabling base capture during BoB setups (and 8th AF setups, etc).  I have always thought base capture was the WORST invention in the old AW days and I cannot for the life of me understand why it is still around.  When are they going to model a proper ground war so the air war can have a reason to exist?

Offline HFMudd

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Base capture in BOB needs to go
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2003, 09:52:02 AM »
Been suggested before, but worth saying again...  The ground war could even be abstracted by the game engine calculating where the front lines are by the amount of strategic resources available to a country.  As a countries factories, cities and refineries are destroyed the maximum area that countries virtual ground forces diminishes and its front lines pull back.  Bases can still be attacked, damaged and repaired but the actual capture is a function of the game engine rather that 10 troops bellying up around the bar in the map room.

Offline Sabre

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Base capture in BOB needs to go
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2003, 11:12:17 AM »
For what it's worth, I made an error in the set up, as C-47's were only supposed to be enabled from second-line bases.  This was mostly to allow for resupply, but also to provide a modest base capture capability.  Long goon flights would make base captures more difficult, without completely eliminating the possibility of a German foot-hold in England.  Remember that the paratroopers in AH are an abstraction that allows a few to simulate what normally takes a multitude of participants, i.e. ground combat.  Personnally, the most helpful arena tool would be the ability to tie possibility of base capture to the number of people in the arena, perhap even to the side ratios.  A minimum number of people total in the arena, with a specific ratio between the two sides (or three, depending on the arena set up), would be required, or base capture would be impossible.

By the way, the Battle of Britain was nowhere near as close a thing as generally believed.  This is not to say that the RAF's efforts were not heroic...they were.  It's just that the popular notion that the RAF was on the ropes until Hitler ordered the switch to terror bombing of English cities is not borne out by historical figures.  Fighter Command never commited more then a fraction (a significant fraction, but nowhere near even 50% as I recall) of it's fighter squadrons to the defense of Sourthern England during the BoB.  They wisely kept many units in reserve in the North against the expected cross-channel invasion.  Those southern fighter squadrons suffered grevious losses, and where definitely feeling the strain, but total RAF fighter strength actually increased over the course of the battle.  I've seen the charts on production and overall front-line strength.  LW strength on the other hand declined.  That's because it was not until late 1942 or early 1943 (again, going from memory) that German figther factories went from single shift to round the clock production.

Bomber Command likewise was husbanded, to be thrown full force at the German invasion barges, beach heads, and assembly points.  The RAF's defeat of the LW is all the more incredible when one considers that it did so with much of it's strength held out of the fight.  Had the assault on the RAF and Coastal Command continued, rather than  being redirected against the English population, it is likely that Germany could have gained control of the air over southern England.  However, they would have been in for a nasty experience had they then gone forward with Sea Lion.  

Goering's assertions that Fighter Command was down to "it's last 50 Spitfires" was never more than wishful thinking.  The fact is that many of the RAF losses reported by LW pilots were not kills.  RAF fighter planes reported shot down often managed to make it back to a friendly base or ditched on English soil, be be salvaged.  Even when the plane was a write-off, RAF pilots who managed to bail over England were back "in the office" the next day.  Again, I don't say this to denegrate the gallant defense of their country by that "so few."  Merely to point out that the RAF was in better shape during the battle than popular history indicates.

Sabre
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Offline Oldman731

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Base capture in BOB needs to go
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2003, 11:26:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sabre
By the way, the Battle of Britain was nowhere near as close a thing as generally believed.  This is not to say that the RAF's efforts were not heroic...they were.  It's just that the popular notion that the RAF was on the ropes until Hitler ordered the switch to terror bombing of English cities is not borne out by historical figures.

Agreed.  And that's not even considering how ludicrous the notion of invading England from barges towed across the Channel was.  Undoubtedly the English were worried at the time (who wouldn't be?), but, as Sabre said, it wasn't a close thing.

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Offline ergRTC

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Base capture in BOB needs to go
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2003, 11:32:23 AM »
good points sabre

Offline CurtissP-6EHawk

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Base capture in BOB needs to go
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2003, 04:27:56 PM »
need more vessals to shoot at...that wont shoot back :D

Offline Karnak

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Base capture in BOB needs to go
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2003, 04:28:56 PM »
Sabre,

That is pretty much how I understand it too.

Well, with the added note that the Royal Navy would have been pulverizing the invasion barges while RAF Fighter Command gave them top cover.

Had the Germans actually tried to invade they would have been slaughtered.  They simply didn't have the resouces to mount a cross channel invasion agaist the strongest navy in Europe and the second strongest air force.
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Offline eskimo2

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Base capture in BOB needs to go
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2003, 05:21:33 PM »
Sabre,
I really have to hand it to you...
You really are a fantastic writer.  You explain your points very clearly and most everything that you write just flows.  You use enough unique words to make your sentences interesting, but don't push your word choice to the point of making your writing difficult to read, or hoity-toity sounding.  I always enjoy reading whatever you write, even when you are wrong :) .

Sorry for the blowing sunshine-up-your-butt sappy stuff guys, I'm a teacher so sometimes I make compliments out of habit.

Sabre's writing really does stand out.

eskimo

Offline ergRTC

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Base capture in BOB needs to go
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2003, 06:16:08 PM »
me write pretty some day.

Online Shane

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Base capture in BOB needs to go
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2003, 06:20:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eskimo2
Sabre,
I really have to hand it to you...
You really are a fantastic writer.  
Sorry for the blowing sunshine-up-your-butt sappy stuff guys, I'm a teacher so sometimes I make compliments out of habit.
Sabre's writing really does stand out.
eskimo


i kin rite reel gud whan i put mye mine two et! no iv onlee eye hade a spelchekur.


pees: eye'm nevr missteaken! and mye deetension hal keed kin beet up yor honer role keed!

:D
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Offline Odee

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Hehehe He said "guns"
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2003, 06:24:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VOR
Have to agree with you on this one. I suppose I envisioned alot of air-air action in a BOB setup, but so far it's a real estate game with guns.

My vote: let's turn it off.


Yeah, pretty wicked flying across the channel with port batteries lobbing shells over your canopy.  Thought someone was shooting 300mm's and dang near augered looking for the con.!:eek:

It was P6Ehawk, honing his skill of political correctness and winning friends in France.  hehe:p

Lose the capture and increase rebuilds, like Erg says.   Please
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Offline Sabre

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Base capture in BOB needs to go
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2003, 10:29:57 AM »
Eskimo: Now that you mention it, I did feel a slight breeze:).  Thanks for the kind words.  One of these days, I'll get back to that novel.  In in turn always appreciate your constructive feedback, and the candor with which you present it.

Sabre
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Online Shane

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Base capture in BOB needs to go
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2003, 01:21:32 AM »
http://www.sunbelt-software.com/stu/viking_kittens.swf

is the *only* way BoB should have base capture enabled.

:D
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.