Author Topic: Whine of the Week............... By Rude (no chit)  (Read 4469 times)

Offline lazs2

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Whine of the Week............... By Rude (no chit)
« Reply #120 on: December 31, 2002, 08:17:32 AM »
grun... you missed toads point..  They know it's a game and have a good time.. I have blasted them harder even then you silly luftwhiners before.   They never struck back with vitriol and what appears to be.... hate.

The deal is... look at the vitriol... you and a couple of the other  little black hat luftwhineres are livid with rage... in fact... you vacilate between rage and pity seeking...

What keeps the luftwhiner image going is posts like yours and hazed.... you guys can't decide weather you are big bad black hat nazi darth vader types or poor helpless little girls being picked on... I submit that you are neither you are simply computer geeks playing a game.   It's a GAME... get it?   lead with your face and you will get a broken nose... get it?   Become a laughable, overly excitable persona and people will laugh at you.  

humorless, uptight and vitriholic gains you no fans.    People laugh at you because you are laughable.  
lazs

Offline AKIron

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Whine of the Week............... By Rude (no chit)
« Reply #121 on: December 31, 2002, 09:01:03 AM »
Truth is (imo) that the recepient of the prestigious "WotW" has already publicly humiliated themself. They often just don't don't know it until someone points it out for them.

That's also true for a lot of posts that aren't recognized. You can whine anti-whiner whiner 'till your blue in the face and doesn't change a thing. Whiner's may get what they whine for (just to shut them up) but they are still whiners.

In the words of my grandson when he was 6 to his 3 year old brother. "I'm sorry Connor, but you're a baby and I don't like to play with babies".
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Offline ygsmilo

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Whine of the Week............... By Rude (no chit)
« Reply #122 on: December 31, 2002, 09:02:05 AM »
I still love ya Hazed.

Offline Pongo

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Whine of the Week............... By Rude (no chit)
« Reply #123 on: December 31, 2002, 09:56:53 AM »
However you justify it Rude. You are personaly insulting someone every time you do your whine thing. Dont you see that?
So I call  you chicken toejam and we should exchange phone numbers..  But calling someone a whiner doesnt make us have to exchange phone numbers I guess.
Like I said. I aggree with lots of your choices. I even aggree with my award if you call it flame of the week. But you still seem to think this lets you keep your hands clean. It doenst . Your hurting people and your response to me here shows that you dont like being made to hurt your self.
Happy new year.
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Offline hazed-

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Whine of the Week............... By Rude (no chit)
« Reply #124 on: December 31, 2002, 10:53:30 AM »
Look, I may have overeacted a little with concerns to the 13th TAs being the sole guilty party of using the gang formula, but it is a commonly used tactic by many posters in here. After rereading the post i guess they werent really so bad BUT theres a point clearly demonstrated here rude.

You see how you took offence to me spouting stuff about you that (possibly:)) isnt true?
I claim you are deliberately trying to humiliate people and you get annoyed and post im full of crap or whatever? well the same applies when you come over holier than thou and decide that a customers complaint or request is IN YOUR VEIW a whine and should therefore be ignored.Personally I find your WOtW
infantile and not very funny at all.The posts you have quoted in the past have been anything from spot on to way off the mark.Ive seen plenty of them where others have said they hardly constitute a whine.The point is we can read the original post and make up our own minds, we dont need you to tell us what the worst post of the week is.
Like i said at first i thought it was quite funny but now i think its not even remotely amusing.For one thing hardly any of them even resemble a decent whine.

What i would like to see is debate and discussion, sure throw in some ribbing and fun but AVOID the 'formula abuse'. by that i mean the handsomehunked tactics of several members ganging together all generally spouting some new gimicky name and flooding a post with infantile drivel.I dont know about you but i tend to start reading that crap and i lose interest in the actual thread subject.Your WOW although aimed at light humour is used like a weapon in some posts.All this crap like 'ooh rude this is a contender for WOW' or 'waaaa waaa its a wow' or whatever, its just toejame.

Id suggest you either give it up and think of something new to make us actually laugh or at least choose posts where there is an actual whine rather than a legitimate gripe.

A perfect example of the gang formula hurting this game was the 190a's oil damage bug.For months people posted that it was happening and for months guys like you called everyone who asked for it whiners.Many gave up in frustration but eventually it was fixed.Did it continue? did you see hundreds of BB members continue to piss and moan about the engine oil bug? I didnt. If i had seen it then i would agree its whining, as in HTC tries to solve the problem, showing they are trying but people continue to complain.
Another example is the F4uC perk era. I dont think ive ever seen so many complaints as in that time and yes it did lower the tone of the boards but when it was addressed by HTC I think they did the exact right thing.The game was adjusted and personally i think it was for the better but do you remember the amount of name calling etc that went on about the so called F4uC whiners?

well i guess my point is I and others on these boards can make our own minds up about what we feel is a whine and whats a legit complaint.We dont need someone else trying to ridicule a player just because he doesnt agree with the gripe.The point is some agree some dont and its up to HTC not you or your buddies to decide.

Heres an example. The current 'perk the LA7' moans/gripes/whines/legit calls/whatever is a totally personal opinion for every player in here. Some hate the amount they see and complain its spoiling their enjoyment, others say they love it the way it is. If some guy decides to post his opinion that it should be perked its not your job to ridicule him.He may well be whining in your eyes but for some people he might be saying what they feel too.Only HTC can decide if they feel its justified not you or I. sure post in the thread that you dont agree but dont try to put it in a totally seperate post aimed purely at embarassing the poster, its poor form and infantile.

Dowding I havent been called it openly lately but i have had handsomehunked comments or posted pictures that imply I am a nazi or wear their uniforms or worship the ground the germans walked on.You being English you should understand that this crap is annoying. I dont fly LW stuff for any other reason than I enjoy flyig them, I do well in them and i like the look of them. I dont appreciate some bellybutton trying to imply i have some other agenda or reason for making my posts.Dont beleive that? too bad.

Laz the funniest thing in this thread is YOU claiming we are full of vitriol.Have you even read your own posts? the things you say about customers who like to fly bombers? We are humourless? well maybe you should ask my squadies if i never have a laugh or joke? oh speaking of humour, those posts by you were stuffed full of humour werent they? yeah right.You want a perfect example of a whine? go read your so called reasons to get rid of bombers.Rather than shoot the bombers down, thus solving your problem you demand the whole game be changed to suit your taste.You truelly are intollerent of others and prove it repeatedly.

as for this thread its gone on too long, its size far outweighs the actual problem discussed within it. I agree with grun that the 'luftwhiner' and the 'whiner police' crap is detremental to (my) enjoyment of these boards. I try to ignore it but if it was somehow removed or people just got bored of using these handsomehunked terms it would be all the better for me personally and thats all i really need to say.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2002, 10:56:39 AM by hazed- »

Offline AKIron

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Whine of the Week............... By Rude (no chit)
« Reply #125 on: December 31, 2002, 11:27:31 AM »
Anyone with a complaint has at least two choices.

1. Write or call HTC privately and express their concerns. (Far less likely to be called a whiner and subjected to ridicule, unless you're asking for a bottle of Hitech's scotch, still smarting from that ;))

2. Post their complaint here in hopes of garnering support for their view. (Far more likely to be flamed as a whiner.)

IMO, anyone hoping to gain support for their challenges here should expect opposition as well.
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Offline hitech

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Whine of the Week............... By Rude (no chit)
« Reply #126 on: December 31, 2002, 11:27:40 AM »
Hazed:

Quote
A perfect example of the gang formula hurting this game was the 190a's oil damage bug.


I submit another possiblity to you. It's not the ganging that hurts this topic, but wrather the previous actions of the posters.

It's realy a chicken little thing. And almost all crediblity has been lost.

You might not like that thought, but it realy is the way the world works.


HiTech

Offline Steve

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Whine of the Week............... By Rude (no chit)
« Reply #127 on: December 31, 2002, 11:58:46 AM »
13th TAS never gets personal or insults people...if they did you would boot them??!!!  Hahah BS ! Rude told me once  on  Ch1 "Keep it up, Punk", and some of his TAS buds joined in with assorted insults/taunts. This is both personal, and an insult.  Based on your definition, if you enforce it as literally as you claim,Rude must go.  If you need to convene the 13th TAS council for drumming Rude out, I will submit the film immediately.  After this exchange btw, I was muted and Rude and company were not (this was the inciting force which caused me to post about how moderators seems to impose their mute authority in a somewhat arbitrary manner.)  Now, the reality of it was is that I was being an bellybutton and Rude was justified in getting ticked off.  I deserved both the insults and the mute but your claim that 13th TAS never insults people or gets personal is just plain inaccurate.  You claim that your group is above it all.... you're not... you're human and sometime get dragged or step into it. Aspiring to be above it all is admirable. Claiming that it " has NEVER come up." is both arrogant and incorrect.  Don't make me out to be bashing your squad..like I said, I deserved all I got and accept my lumps. Additionally, I am civil with everyone in your group(as far as I know) in spite of our occasional differences.  I'm just calling you on that "holier than thou" stuff.  It simply doesn't fly.  
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Offline Toad

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Whine of the Week............... By Rude (no chit)
« Reply #128 on: December 31, 2002, 12:01:45 PM »
Please send the film to

Toad@13thtas.com

Thanks. I would love to review it.
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Offline Cobra

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Whine of the Week............... By Rude (no chit)
« Reply #129 on: December 31, 2002, 12:06:25 PM »
What's the problem?......the WOW winners wanted to call attention to themselves in their original posting.......so they got all the attention, and more, called to their post.....why are they upset by that?

Oh, it wasn't attention that they expected.....oh, ok...got it.

Cobra

Offline Steve

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Whine of the Week............... By Rude (no chit)
« Reply #130 on: December 31, 2002, 12:15:12 PM »
Toadmon...I was kidding about submitting it... let me be restate so I am clear:  I was being an bellybutton and deserved what I got.  From my perspective, Rude and his TAS friends weren't out of line at all.  If this is moot and your standards are as they are without exception, I will refrain from sending you that film because I certainly harbor no ill will toward Rude and Co. and thus will do nothing that may cause them any "harm".

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Offline maxtor

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Whine of the Week............... By Rude (no chit)
« Reply #131 on: December 31, 2002, 12:17:33 PM »
Just to point out that HTC does change stuff.  This last release had things in it that were politely and reasonably submitted in the aircraft and vehicle forum.

Offline Toad

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Whine of the Week............... By Rude (no chit)
« Reply #132 on: December 31, 2002, 12:31:16 PM »
Steve,

I really would like the film.

I'd like to read the whole exhange in context and see what's there. I may or may not agree with you. But it's pointless to discuss your accusation without seeing what actually happened.

We'll handle it as a squad from there. We do make a very strong effort to "police" ourselves.

Thanks again.

(It may take me a while to review it. I've got some whacko computer problems going on right now. Going to try another mobo today or tonite.)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Steve

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Whine of the Week............... By Rude (no chit)
« Reply #133 on: December 31, 2002, 01:18:36 PM »
I'll dig it up sometime if ya really want it... it would take some effort I spose.  You could just ask Rude about it.  This spat wasn't the focus of my post though.. it was more about the "has NEVER come up" post.  Never is a long time.
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Offline Charon

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Whine of the Week............... By Rude (no chit)
« Reply #134 on: December 31, 2002, 01:54:21 PM »
Why don't we all just start fresh with the New Year? A pipe dream, perhaps, but how about giving everyone on all sides a clean slate, and move forward to achieve our common goals. I think we can agree that:

1. Proper modeling of all aircraft is a common goal, submitting data and raising legitimate questions is something we should all encourage.

2. There will be conflicting data from time to time. I get the impression that the game developers do not have a play balancing or marketing agenda with how they develop the flight models, etc. If the performance differences are relatively minor, try giving them the benefit of the doubt. IMO no aircraft flight performance data from that period is absolute given the telemetry equipment of the era and other factors. Perhaps the test pilot was hung over. Or the aircraft in question was an extra hot factory special, or a worn-out dog. Worry more about areas where major discrepancies are found. If you really think HTC have a hidden agenda, then is AH worth bothering with at all? Move on to an environment that will lead to fewer ulcers and angst.

3. Compose new data or questions in the same way you would if you were dealing with a work issue. You are asking for a time commitment (even for a minor adjustment) and a change in gameplay dynamics that will not be taken lightly. Provide a convincing argument. If you read anecdotal material, or have a feeling about something without data, perhaps raise it as a question more than a declarative statement. Often "feel" has some validity, but usually only as a starting point to try and collect hard data to prove the issue.

As for anecdotal data, without the specific maneuvering diagrams you really don't know. Did the Ta 152 actually out maneuver the Tempest in such and such a fight? Perhaps so (just an example here, not stating an opinion on the actual aircraft matchup). But then I've ran down P-51s in a Zero and out turned a Zero in a LA7, but that was me (or more accurately, my opponent) and not the airplane that made it possible. Hartmann was great in a ME-109, largely fighting in hit and run encounters at low altitude on the Eastern Front. To him, with his skills, opposition, eyesight, training, radio communications and the mission at hand, the Me-109 was the greatest plane in the skies. However, would he have been less successful flying the Fw-190, or perhaps more successful? Would his opinion of the greatest plane in the world be different had he been flying Corsairs in the South Pacific, 1944? What if he was flying a Yak 7 for the Russians? What if he was flying in an artifical MA type environment with a full range of plane choices?

4. Treat people with respect, even if you disagree with them, and even if at some level you don't actually respect them. If somebody is being a jerk, let everyone see the contrast between him/her and you. Civility and dignity may be in short supply throughout the world, but there is no reason why this community can't rise above an otherwise impolite society. It's really not that hard, even when things become heated. I try to do this, fail at times, but it is still worth the effort.

5. Remember, we are all dweebs. We play computer games. The distinction between a Lame 7, Spitdweeb or LW elite are pretty insignificant to someone from "mainstream" society. If we had some of these arguments in public, we would be laughed off the street :)

6. Try to have some patience. HTC is not EA, or Microsoft, or some other big corporation - thank god. If it were, we wouldn't see Hitech or Pyro even posting here. We would just receive press release content with their name on it that some PR type created for them to sign off on. HTC is a small shop, but IMO they are a dedicated one. For each concern you or I have, there are a thousand other people with different concerns and priorities. Expect that it will take some time for 6 people or so to do everything on the list. Don't worry, time passes quick enough I'm afraid. It will be 2005 and version 2.3 before you know it. The debate will be over which 1946 plane to add since the addition of the Bolton Paul Defiant finally filled out the WW2 plane set.

7. If the gameplay is seriously broken to your expectations, and the revision timetable is not to your liking after raising the concern politely once or twice, then move on. I know I will.

8. The hardest one -- once a post goes downhill, moves from any factual debate into personal attacks and opinion, stop feeding it.

As an ending note, perhaps a little more feedback from HTC would be appreciated when someone goes to the trouble to dig up real data. I know my interest gets peaked, whether its a TA-152 GM-1 issue or the Corsair acceleration discussion. After spending the time following one of these discussions, I would personally like to get some sort of final answer. The choice to go with one set or another may be controversial. But, so what. That is the developers' call to make, and as a player I can live with that. At least the feedback reduces some of the speculation, which can become quite negative. Once the reason is stated there is no further need for the developers to defend the issue. As players, you and I can make our customer choices from there.

Charon
« Last Edit: December 31, 2002, 02:19:05 PM by Charon »