Author Topic: What so special about the F4U-1C? (Read 2932 times)

muckmaw · « **Reply #15 on:** December 30, 2002, 12:58:53 PM »

I undertand perfectly now, Wotan. Thank you.

So the 1C was perked because it was limited production and was unbalancing the arena.

Now, along the same line of thought, would it not make sense to perk the LA-7, and Spitfire due to their proliferation in the arena?

Or do they not account for much as far as kills go? I would have to go back and check the kill ratio for these planes, but I am tired of seeing the same planes all the time. I've seen alot of Yaks lately, and thats refreshing.

What's the ammo load on the C-hog vs. that of the Spit or the La-7? I assume they all use 20mms? Please excuse the ignorance on this.

SlapShot · « **Reply #16 on:** December 30, 2002, 01:06:34 PM »

Muck 'ol buddy ... do you need me to post the picture of ...

"How about a cup of ..." ?

You got your answer about the C-HOG ... leave the rest alone ... LOL ... <>

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #17 on:** December 30, 2002, 01:12:37 PM »

The F4U-1C, unperked, was (and probably still would be) terribly unbalancing. Simply put, it's probably the most versatile aircraft in Aces High.

Not only does it sport four 20mm Hispano cannons (with more ammo and a tighter spread than the Typhoon), but it also carries an enormous amount of ordinance for base attack. Couple that with the fact that it also may take off from carriers, and you have a plane with nearly unmatched firepower that can take off from just about anywhere. P-38s, P-47s, and Typhoons aren't CV-ready, so they can't just up two minutes from a base with a full load of bombs, rockets, and 20mm.

Flight characteristics-wise, it's not the greatest plane in the world, but it's not the worst. It's certainly one of the faster carrier-based planes, rolling very well and handling nicely at medium to high speeds.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Kaz · « **Reply #18 on:** December 30, 2002, 01:16:30 PM »

That's why we need the Ki84-1a

Kaz · « **Reply #19 on:** December 30, 2002, 01:17:29 PM »

Oh and before Whels chimes in, the F8F also, but not before the Hayate

Urchin · « **Reply #20 on:** December 30, 2002, 01:22:23 PM »

F4U-1C was perked because it had 4 Hispanos with a ton of ammo. It could also carry 2,000 pounds worth of bombs and rockets.

No, that wasn't the direct reason it was perked. The direct reason was that it was the easiest way to kill stuff in the game, so everyone used it. We are still going through a 'sorting out' period while people decide which of the Big 4 is "best", then that will be the new C-Hog for a few months.

Was doing some checking up on the 'plane stats', I think the trend of 'diversifying' is reversing. I was seeing more and more Spits, N1Ks, La7s, and P-51s, and less of everything else. I thought I was possibly imagining it, but I wasn't. Granted, this tour hasn't ended yet, but I'll give you my preliminary results.

Tour 35: Top 12 planes (as of about 3 am in the morning, Dec 28, when I was doing it)

1. P-51D - 38,607 (10.4%)
2. Spit IX - 34,702 (9.4%)
3. La-7 - 33,182 (8.9%)
4. N1K2 - 26,121 (7.0%)
5. Typhoon - 21,432 (5.8%)
6. F6F-5 - 15,791 (4.2%)
7. Spit V - 15,625 (4.2%)
8. 190D-9 - 14,697 (3.9%)
9. P-38L - 14,269 (3.8%)
10. 109G10- 14,118 (3.8%)
11. Seafire - 13,556 (3.6%)
12. F4U-1D - 11,897 (3.2%)

The criteria for picking em was they were a fighter, and they had over 10,000 kills. Only 12 fighters have had over 10,000 kills for the past 3 months, I believe they stayed the same (I could be wrong tho, it was late). The total number of kills scored by fighters was 370,837 (so far ). I just got the kill counts, don't care what they killed or how. Just some interesting stuff :

Tour 35 (so far)

% of kills by the top 12 planes : 68.2%
% of kills by the top 10 planes: 61.4%
% of kills by the top 5 planes: 41.5%

Tour 34 :

% of kills by the top 12 planes: 67%
% of kills by the top 10 planes: 61.1%
% of kills by the top 5 planes: 41.2%

I know this is a "Luftwhine", but when people say "All I see are Spits, N1K2s, La7s, and P51s".. they may be telling the truth. Remember that the different Spit marks aren't differentiated, they all say "Spit"- and you pretty much fight the Spit IX and the Spit V the same way, so it doesn't matter (to me anyway) which mark it is.

Not counting the Spit I or the Spit XIV (they didn't get enough kills for me to bother), the:

% of kills the "Spits, N1Ks, La7s, and P-51s" have in:

Tour 35: 43.5%
Tour 34: 41%

Granted, the percentage of kills for a Tour doesn't tell us exactly what the percentage of planes flying in the arena at any given time are, but I think if anything it understates it. I personally think that the Spit, N1K, La7, and P-51 (my so-called "Big 4") are seeing about 60% of the fighter sorties in the MA. I don't know of any good way to check that though.

Anyway, thats my little Luftwhine for today I guess.

Wilfrid · « **Reply #21 on:** December 30, 2002, 01:35:02 PM »

Numbers of aircraft built in real life has *NEVER* had any bearing on perk aircraft selection or cost.

Wotan · « **Reply #22 on:** December 30, 2002, 01:39:58 PM »

compare la7 usage to the chog you will see why the la7 doesnt have the impact the chog had. Thats what you keep missing read Urchins post search the kill stats going back to when the chog was unperked and compare with the la7 niki spit p51 or any of the top 5 killers in ah and you will see the chog greatly unbalanced the arena. Dont insert anything into why the chog is perked but that.

Its not on production, performance or guns.

The plane got nearlt 20% of the kills in the main. Go check see whats the highest % of kills the la7 ever had.

The chog was perked because it unbalanced the main. Period. Doesnt matter what gun, what color, what year, how many or how fast.

Now why did the chog have that impact? Read Levi's post.

The only other plane that is even close is the p51d and even then it shouldnt be perked until it equals the unbalancing nature of the chog.

There are other planes in ah that are faster and carry 4 hizookas. The Typh for one. The Hurri IIc has 4 hizookas. But neither impact the main in the Chog did.

HT didnt perk the chog on a whim. It took a few tours of them adjusting the eny until it could get no lower. As I said I didnt think much about but in the long run I think a lot of folks agree it was good call.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #23 on:** December 30, 2002, 01:41:08 PM »

When people complain "all I see are..." the first response should be "what were you in?".

If you were in a fighter, you'd see a significantly different picture than if you were in a bomber or a GV. That does matter immensely. And that does change the order of the top 12 significantly.

AKDejaVu

J_A_B · « **Reply #24 on:** December 30, 2002, 01:43:22 PM »

Not only do those planes each have less than half the number of kills the -1C had at the height of its popularity, they all have a considerably worse K/D ratio too.

J_A_B

muckmaw · « **Reply #25 on:** December 30, 2002, 01:47:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot
Muck 'ol buddy ... do you need me to post the picture of ...

"How about a cup of ..." ?

You got your answer about the C-HOG ... leave the rest alone ... LOL ... <>

Alright, Slappy, if that's the way you want it, I'll just have to annoy you with my stupid questions on squad channel all night.

Thanks!

~~Oh, and your gear's down.~~

SlapShot · « **Reply #26 on:** December 30, 2002, 02:05:05 PM »

Numbers are nice and interesting, but they don't always paint the correct picture.

Which country flew the most Spits the last 2 tours ?

My guess would be the Rooks ... why ... because that is one of the best defensive planes around. Rooks being outnumbered like they were, and always on the defense, probably upped many Spits to protect their fields.

Very rarely do I see Spits flown offensively .. why ... poor ammo load. I won't fly a Spit for any extended distance to attack a base to run out of ammo in a short period of time, nor does it have any JABO capabilities to speak of.

Which country flew the most La-7s the last 2 tours ?

Again, a vey good defensive plane. My preference. Its also the best "Goon Hunter" around. Offensive intial base strike ... bah ... useless. Again, no JABO to speak of. Only time I will fly this plane offensively to a base is after I have JABOed and died. This will get me back to the action the fastest to relieve/support the guys who are still around trying to CAP.

N1Ks ... probably the best "Vulcher" in the hanger. This plane is reasonably fast ... great ammo and loadout ... a good turner, and climbs very well.

P51s .. I have to admit .. they are all over the place. This plane can do it all ... JABO ... Vulch ... Bounce ... BnZ ... and turn fight (only by experienced P51 jocks) and when in trouble ... they can run like no other.

None of these planes deserves to be perked. Each has it own weakness and can die as quickly as it can kill.

When I fly with the MAW on squad nights, I fly offensively, most of the other nights, I fly more defensively. What I see more of than anything else are 190s and 109s. They don't seem to have the number of kills to make the list, but when a base is under attack, I rarely see Spits or La-7s. Mostly P51s, all type of JABOs, and a lot of those high 190s and 109s just waitin' for the "bounce".

Urchin .. do you get any numbers on how many flights each aircraft had ?

muckmaw · « **Reply #27 on:** December 30, 2002, 02:06:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKDejaVu
When people complain "all I see are..." the first response should be "what were you in?".

If you were in a fighter, you'd see a significantly different picture than if you were in a bomber or a GV. That does matter immensely. And that does change the order of the top 12 significantly.

AKDejaVu

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, Deja. Could you explain further. I'm either in an F6F or a B-26 (Most tours) and I really don't see the difference. I pretty much see the same planes. (Ponies, Spits, La-7s, and 109's).

Wotan, your post makes perfect sense, and I thank you for the information.

I'm going to have to try this hog out a little more, and see if she's worth the perks.

Grimm · « **Reply #28 on:** December 30, 2002, 02:07:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wilfrid
Numbers of aircraft built in real life has *NEVER* had any bearing on perk aircraft selection or cost.

I stand corrected.

somewhere along the line I must have gotten the wrong impression.

Just to ask a question, has HT ever official explained the Perk system??

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #29 on:** December 30, 2002, 02:12:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot
Very rarely do I see Spits flown offensively .. why ... poor ammo load. I won't fly a Spit for any extended distance to attack a base to run out of ammo in a short period of time

Eh? Both the Spit IX and the Spit V have quite a lot of highly lethal ammo.

-- Todd/Leviathn