Author Topic: Dogs  (Read 2946 times)

Offline mrfish

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Dogs
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2002, 11:13:04 AM »
dogs smell all the time though and they have to be walked everytime they need to crap or exercise if you live in a little apartment like i do.

also the poop laws say you have to wait for that nugget to harden and pick it up off the sidewalk when rover's done.

my cat sits around and poses all day and smells like baby powder. if she needs exercise she goes and kills a play mouse (provided no real ones are available). i scoop thru the sand a few times per week and voila. they practically take care of themselves and they're very affectionate provided you're not one of those idiots that walks around yelling and flapping their arms all the time.

sometimes she sits in the window looking down on the street below watching dogs bark and fumble around in the rain and grovel to thier owners-  the look on her face is saying "hmpf. ..handsomehunk dogs" it doesn't take a genious to translate it. :)

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2002, 11:17:43 AM »
Cats have personality... but they all have the exact same personality.  Some are just more skiddish than others.  "Look at me, I'm cool.  Adore me, I'm cool.  Feed me, I'm cool"

With my dogs, I can tell when they are ashamed, embarassed, happy, bored, anxious or whatever.  That is what I call personality.

Dogs are better.

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Offline miko2d

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« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2002, 11:18:25 AM »
Only herd animals can be domesticated in the strict sence of a word. Others can be tamed but it is not the same.
 Dogs are herd animals. Cats are not.

 So cat is just living in your house. It adopts using the specie's innate flexibility but does not become part of it.
 Dog is really a part of your family - which he perceives as a pack, with all the implications. So dog has natural instincts to cooperate, obey, even sacrifice.

 Not just a puppy, you can admit an adult dog, even wild one into a family/pack and as soon as you show him the place in the hierarchy, the process is over - the animal is domestic. Anyone who is higher in hierarchy than him - you, your spouse, a child - will be allowed to even take away food from him without any problem. Though in many cases the dog treats/tolerates a child not as higher in hierarchy but as a cub of the pack - so the indulgence may end one day with a snap or a growl - when the dog believes a child to grow big enough to obey the pack rules.
 Even when he is sure he is stronger and can kill the offender, the dog obeys those rules. Just make sure he knows the hierarchy, then the most vicious dog is completely safe - to the family.
 Dog certainly does not yield from the fear of beating - the same dog would attack a stranger despite most griveous wounds but would quickly put his tail between his legs at the smallest sign of discontent from the owner - the "alpha".
 Of course obeying rules of hierarchy is very different from blind subjugation. There are rules and obligations expected from both directions. A dog would tolerate a higher-up taking away his food, or beating him as punishment for transgression but he may snap at you for "unreasonably" pulling his ears, trying to clip his claws or approaching with a hair dryer - high status does not entitle you to that indignity though being perceived as a pup/child could.

 With cat it never ever works like that. The cat would tolerate a lot of things done to it - but only becasue he knows that he is weaker in every particular case. Even then he is likely to claw you and escape. I have never heard of an unwilling cat taught to tolerate children.

 I am very surprised anyone would believe dogs have less personality than cats. Being social species with inter-pack relations and hierarchy and communications a major component of dog's natural environment, dog has evolved more provisions for interacting and communicating with others, reading and conveying feelings and intents - which is what personality is all about.
 
 Oh, of course once in a while you get phsychotic and antisocial dog in whom the mechanism does not work - just like in sociopaths among humans. One could almost say that all cats are sociopaths - but that would not be correct at all since they do not have a "socio" norm to begin with.

 miko
« Last Edit: December 31, 2002, 11:21:21 AM by miko2d »

Offline Curval

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« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2002, 11:20:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MrLars
I have 2 Great Danes, they're more like urban livestock. One thing that cats can never do is protect your property, one of my dogs, Astro, has caught 2 car burglers in the past 5 years. She's earned her keep IMO ;)


My sister recently got a Great Dane.

What fantasic dogs they are.

So far he has "tried" to stop a thief from breaking into her car...a fence prevented him from getting to the guy...by barking a warning.  He was told to be quiet and the theif got my sister's wallet.

Christmas eve he ended up waking a very drunk party goer up who had fallen asleep in my sister's yard.  He wouldn't let the guy get up...he pawed him to the ground every time he tried, and stood there barking throughout our dinner.  When my brother-in-law finally went out to see what was up he found this guy lying there scared out of his mind.

Twice he has done his job and twice he was initially ignored.

Won't happen again though.  ;)
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Offline Hawklore

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« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2002, 11:29:46 AM »
Here are my 2 dogs..
"So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.
Trouble no one about their religion;
respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours.
Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life." - Chief Tecumseh

Offline Hawklore

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« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2002, 11:30:53 AM »
other one
"So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.
Trouble no one about their religion;
respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours.
Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life." - Chief Tecumseh

Offline Hawklore

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« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2002, 11:31:40 AM »
sorry didnt have time to shrink them..

Want the 2 cats?
"So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.
Trouble no one about their religion;
respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours.
Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life." - Chief Tecumseh

Offline swoopy

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Dogs
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2002, 11:39:26 AM »
Here is my cat Suki quietly waiting for food.:)
Vosnik
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Offline janneh

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« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2002, 12:06:38 PM »
Wasn't this thread about dogs? Oh please, take those cats away! I hate cats!!! Only time they care about you is when they are hungry :D
Happy New Year! 4 hours and many many beers to go :D

Offline OIO

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« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2002, 12:13:47 PM »
Dogs, no doubt about it.

"(CNN) -- About 15,000 years of friendship between man and dog have helped man's best friend to develop unique ways of understanding humans: abilities that still are somewhat mysterious to scientists and dog lovers, several studies released this week found.

Whether it's a beagle, basenji or basset hound, scientists say dogs all over the globe descended from one common ancestor, probably somewhere in East Asia about 15,000 years ago, and they have followed man through his migrations over the Earth.

"Dogs are an important part of our human history, and until now there hasn't been much common knowledge, only a lot of common guessing about their origin," said Peter Savolainen, a geneticist at the Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm, Sweden.

Tracing the origins
Three studies in this week's Science magazine provide evidence that early humans had domesticated gray wolves by the time they crossed the Bering Strait to settle the New World, 12,000 to 14,000 years ago. DNA analysis of dogs worldwide showed the most genetic diversity in East Asia, meaning dogs have likely been domesticated there the longest. Another study that compared Old and New World dogs found that canines in North and South America also descended from that same Eurasian mother.

"We know that dogs were useful for lots of things in Stone Age culture, as draft animals, in hunting, for warmth, and for protection," said Jennifer Leonard, a postdoctoral fellow at the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of Natural History.

And in sharing food, shelter, survival and play, modern dogs have somehow genetically acquired an insight about humans that has earned them the title of man's best friend.

"It looks like dogs really do understand what we are trying to tell them, they are thinking about what we want, and they understand that we are trying to communicate," said Brian Hare of Harvard University, who authored one of the studies.

Picking up on human needs
Not only did the dogs Hare tested pick up on what human researchers were trying to convey, they surprised scientists by doing it much better than other species, even chimpanzees.

Hare's experiment worked in the following manner: A researcher stood near two containers, one of which had food inside. Testing dogs, puppies, wolves and chimpanzees, the researcher would send some cue, either by looking at, tapping on or putting some mark on the food container.

The adult dogs and puppies picked the correct container far more often than either the chimps or the wolves did, and far more often than chance levels. (Controls ruled out the possibility that the animals smelled the food.) By doing so, the dogs defied the expectations of a lot of scientists.

"Wolves have bigger brains than dogs, so it was thought the wolves would do better," Hare said. "And chimpanzees are primates, closer to humans, so it was thought they would do better."

Even the theory that the adult dogs would outperform the puppies because they had spent more time with humans was quashed, when puppies as young as 9 weeks old successfully picked up on subtle cues from human researchers.

"Dogs have a talent for reading social cues in a very sophisticated way," Hare said.

It's in the genes?
These results are not so surprising to zoology professor and dog behavior expert Patricia McConnell.

"Domestic dogs follow humans like a laser and watch the behavior of their humans with a focus that is astounding," said McConnell, a professor at the University of Wisconsin in Madison. "This opens up big and interesting questions about how social intelligence is passed on genetically."

But McConnell said what's not yet understood is which of the cues that humans give are the ones the dog picks out as relevant.

"Perhaps you've taught your dog to sit, and you want to show this off to your friends," McConnell said. "You say, 'Sit,' but he just looks at you."

The rise of designer dogs
The dog, she said, might have learned to sit -- not by your words but by how your head was turned or what your body language was like when he was learning. If those things are different in a roomful of people, the command "sit" may not do the trick.

These visual cues can be critical, said McConnell, who often works with aggressive dogs. A difference of a quarter inch in a human's head movement can be the difference between a calm dog and one that attacks.

But with one common ancestor, why the vast differences in size, shape and skills between shepherds and Shih Tzus, bull mastiffs and border collies?

That's all the work of humans, not genetics. People started creating designer dogs about 500 years ago, said Savolainen, the geneticist at the Royal Institute of Technology.

Upper classes started breeding better hunting and herding dogs and cuter lap dogs. The American Kennel Club now recognizes 150 breeds.

And they're all keeping a watchful eye over their humans."

Besides, you gotta face it, cats dont care if you're there or not.


Offline Kanth

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« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2002, 12:25:49 PM »
my cat will situp and beg when he wants something, whether it's food, or attention. If you don't see him sitting up and begging because he is behind you he will begin to wave his arms about trying to get your attention, if that doesn't work he will utter a small sound once.  I usually tackle him after the first stage cause even the waving arms part is just too damn cute.

(for example he sees something that he believes to be string on the floor he will begin to beg and wave his arms about, as soon as I look he will attack it and look at me, looks like an invitation to play to me)

if his food dish is low, he will lead me to it and show me that he needs more.

I once smacked him with a paper towel (just a single sheet for principal not to harm him) he was very upset and being admonished, he then went in and tore the toilet paper off the roll in my bathroom and shredded it. :D

gotta love that hehehe

he's 20lbs and fully clawed and I've bathed him before and he wimpered a little but didn't fight me and would never claw me.

both of my cats have very distinct personalities, both need different amounts of attention and both with act out in their different ways to get it.

Both growl if someone is about the outside of the apt banging around and shoulder to shoulder they will go to investigate.

If I get upset for any reason both recognize this and will come running to me to see what the matter is, the large one will actually start trying to groom my hair if I'm crying or whatnot.

you folks who say they have no personality maybe have been too busy to notice.  It's easy to recognize what a great dane is doing, every movement is HUGE. it's harder to pay attention to such a small pet or two who have their own needs and wants and are subtle about them.

I have to wonder if more LW pilots own cats and more spitfire pilots own dogs..
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Offline Kieran

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« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2002, 12:33:57 PM »
Ever see a seeing eye cat? Shephard cats?

Ever see the disdain in a cat's eyes (which BTW are fish eyes) when you say "No!"?

Ever hear of a cat dragging a kid to safety when the house catches fire? Dive into water to save a drowning person?

Can you picture a tabby carrying that little barrel thingy St. Bernards carry?

Imagine Nazis marching around a perimeter with viscious guard calicos straining at their leashes.

Imagine the frightened look on an escaped convict's face when he hears the unmistakeable mewing of the tracking cats on his trail...

Dogs all the way for me. :D

Offline batdog

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« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2002, 12:36:17 PM »
Rommel the BATDOG humps visting ladies legs. No idea why..well I got an idea but you know. its a great converstional piece. This Mini-Pin walks up to a chicks leg. he's got these pointy uncropped ears (batwings) and this smile on his mug. Next thing he grabbing a leg and riding for all he's worth....

Priceless.

Ex-xBAT now FatBat
Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

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Offline lord dolf vader

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« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2002, 12:39:16 PM »
once read a story about the japanese who first traveled to europe they said they were disapointed that european women had "dog eyes"  seemed like a compliment at first lol.

Offline Kanth

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« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2002, 12:45:26 PM »
K,

what does it say about you as a pet owner who comes back with a list of pet 'uses'..nothing of friendship or personality.

All of the things you have listed can be done better by machines and they have electronic dogs you can buy these days as well.

just think no smell, no poop and no food, it'll always obey and you can probably use it to hold your door open to bring in groceries and as a paperweight, there is no end. Hell if your car gets stuck in the mud you can wedge your electronic dog under their for traction.

The perfect utility.
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