Author Topic: What has happened to Tom Clancy? (Read 1731 times)

Habu · « **Reply #45 on:** January 07, 2003, 10:33:39 AM »

Actually when the Canadian government fired all the Avro workers many of the engineers and scientists whet to work in the US at NASA and the major defense contractors and brought with them the cutting edge ideas from that program.

The sweep wing fighter was an evolution of the original delta wing concept that the Arrow program developed.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #46 on:** January 07, 2003, 10:46:59 AM »

Sorry Habu, but you are stretching. A sweep wing setup with horizontal stabilizers is drastically different than the delta wing in every aspect other than final shape.... and that isn't something that was inovated with that plane... simply implimented.

BTW.. a funny thing about the Su-24. They never allowed for external stores on the wings while the wings were swept. The F-111 could sweep its wings with fuel pods or ordinance attatched.

AKDejaVu

Habu · « **Reply #47 on:** January 07, 2003, 03:05:49 PM »

There was nothing that looked anything like the Arrow before. The nose fuselage shape cockpit high slung thin delta wing dual engine configuration were all designed for that plane. Now look at the mig and the F-111 and tell me you don't Arrow all over them.

The F-111 had sweep wings and the arrow did not because the expected mission of the planes changed. The Arrow was to be the ultimate high speed bomber intercepter. The F-111 was more a bomber.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #48 on:** January 07, 2003, 03:33:01 PM »

The cockpit and nose design is similar to the F-105... just that it has high mounted wings and two engines. The thin delta wing was nothing new either.

Really... I don't look at it as being a completely revolutionary and trend setting plane. It was a natural progression.

The Su-24, OTH was made using the blueprints for the F-111 with certain sacrifices made due to materials availability and different engines. This is common knowledge.

The origins of all other fighters stems from previous designs of another.

AKDejaVu

Pongo · « **Reply #49 on:** January 07, 2003, 04:46:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Habu
There was nothing that looked anything like the Arrow before. The nose fuselage shape cockpit high slung thin delta wing dual engine configuration were all designed for that plane. Now look at the mig and the F-111 and tell me you don't Arrow all over them.

The F-111 had sweep wings and the arrow did not because the expected mission of the planes changed. The Arrow was to be the ultimate high speed bomber intercepter. The F-111 was more a bomber.

sad sad arrow myths.

Pongo · « **Reply #50 on:** January 07, 2003, 04:47:36 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda
Russian marine forces ("sea infantry") are 300 years old. Founded by Peter I.

It can be interesting for you to read something about a Kerch-Feodosia landing operation during WWII.

Sea infantry was widely used in Far East against Japanese in 1945 too. I can say that Russian do have some experience.

About US CVs destroyed - last year we had several Su-24 pilots awarded Heroes of Russia for penetrating US CV groups air defence. I think someone really craped their pants when Russian supersonic planes passed over their flight decks

you missunderstood my first point.

and you probably over state the second.

Pongo · « **Reply #51 on:** January 07, 2003, 04:49:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKDejaVu
The Su-24 was a direct knock off of the F-111. The US was so worried about it that they hurried the F-15 program as a means to counter it.

Then we got to check one out after a Russian defected in it... and we weren't nearly as worried.

AKDejaVu

I think your thinking of the Mig 25

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #52 on:** January 07, 2003, 04:58:35 PM »

You may be right... the Mig25 is the Foxbat?

AKDejaVu

Dowding · « **Reply #53 on:** January 07, 2003, 05:03:40 PM »

Yes, the Mig-25 is the Foxbat. A highly capable plane if I remember rightly - Mach 2.5 capable, for short bursts (although a
that's a one time deal for the engines - they would need immediate overhaul).

Habu · « **Reply #54 on:** January 07, 2003, 05:26:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dowding
Yes, the Mig-25 is the Foxbat. A highly capable plane if I remember rightly - Mach 2.5 capable, for short bursts (although a
that's a one time deal for the engines - they would need immediate overhaul).

The Avro Arrow would have done Mack 2.5 with a full weapons load too with the proper engine. Unfortunetly the Canadian government pulled the plug just as the first prototypes were ready.

The planes that flew had much less powerful engines installed just for flight testing as the proper engine was not yet ready. Thus it was slower.

And it was designed and built in the 50's.

Pongo · « **Reply #55 on:** January 07, 2003, 05:26:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKDejaVu
You may be right... the Mig25 is the Foxbat?

AKDejaVu

Yes. as recounted in the book "Mig Pilot"
what ever happend to him?

Furious · « **Reply #56 on:** January 07, 2003, 05:28:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
I think your thinking of the Mig 25

No, he was correct. The Su-24 Fencer closely resembles an F-111 as does the MiG 23 Flogger.

Pongo · « **Reply #57 on:** January 07, 2003, 05:29:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Habu
The Avro Arrow would have done Mack 2.5 with a full weapons load too with the proper engine. Unfortunetly the Canadian government pulled the plug just as the first prototypes were ready.

The planes that flew had much less powerful engines installed just for flight testing as the proper engine was not yet ready. Thus it was slower.

And it was designed and built in the 50's.

The foxbat was useless. So would the arrow have been. The supersonic Soviet bombers coming over the pole it was developed to intercept didnt exist till the BlackJack.

You think it would have been superior to the canceled YF12? ..cancelled for the same reason?

Pongo · « **Reply #58 on:** January 07, 2003, 05:30:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Furious
No, he was correct. The Su-24 Fencer closely resembles an F-111.

Yes..but none ever defected. He is mixing and combining two soviet AC.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #59 on:** January 07, 2003, 05:46:22 PM »

I was correct that the Su-24 was a direct knockoff of the F-111... but the Mig25 is the plane that had us extremely worried during the cold war mostly because we didn't know anything about it. The Mig25 is the plane that drove the need for the F-15.

Ironic how a plane built on rumors and hype caused the development of one of the best jet fighters of all time.

AKDejaVu