Author Topic: Just a thought Concerning Suicide Attacks  (Read 985 times)

Offline DrDea/Kvorkian

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Just a thought Concerning Suicide Attacks
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2003, 01:26:29 PM »
"how about learning to defend your base from the suicide attackers DUH "

  Several reasons.1)     They come in to fast.   Thats great.Grab some alt and dive down with em
2)  Theres to many of them.   Grab a few friends and try #1.It could even encourage the "Suicides" to try somewhere else.
3) I dont have time to babysit a base. Thats ok too.Just stop squeaking about it when its hit.

   Perking 1000 and 500 lb eggs might be a partial answer,but how is someone going to gain perk points if they have none to start with.If its a high perk the old pro's wont have an issue with it because they gain them easily.If there a low perk value than whats the point?
  If you dont want to see a base banged,and just because someone crashes trying to pull out doesnt make em a suicide dweeb,then cap it.

Offline lazs2

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Just a thought Concerning Suicide Attacks
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2003, 01:50:44 PM »
Defend against suicide attackers?  why legitimize their skilless attacks?   Why should their lack of talent need any special defence that requires patience and skill?   It would be much more fair to make the losers earn their bombs.   Since they are such losers they will have to find another area of the game to game.
lazs

Offline Wlfgng

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Just a thought Concerning Suicide Attacks
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2003, 01:51:20 PM »
it's too bad code can't be written that can identify the suicide dweebtards.  
That way if they suicide fine.. but they can't re-up for a while.

these guys that post that it was a 'real' wartime tactic and should be allowed tend to forget that yeah.. it was real.. and final.
One sortie is all ya get in RL.

Offline Furious

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Just a thought Concerning Suicide Attacks
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2003, 01:53:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DrDea/Kvorkian
...Perking 1000 and 500 lb eggs might be a partial answer,but how is someone going to gain perk points if they have none to start with.If its a high perk the old pro's wont have an issue with it because they gain them easily.If there a low perk value than whats the point? ...


Easy.  Give attack perks.  Attack perks could be gained by any destruction of an object or GV, such as gunning down a field ack.

If you drop ord on a target and live for 30sec - 1min, no perks lost.

Have a Jettison option.  If attacked otw to target, jettison ord. unarmed, and you are now in Fighter mode.  No perks lost.

Have no option to carry bombs in fighter role.




F.

Offline Vulcan

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Just a thought Concerning Suicide Attacks
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2003, 03:42:12 PM »
Having seen the attrition system sorta working I can see the benefits. But I think this sorta system would be best suited to a CT or Mission Arena (when it arrives).


Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
should be that way with everything - from planes to ammo to fuel ... heck available pilots

should be limited relying on re-supplies (goon, gv, train, trucks)

would change strategy of entire game - would make country channel interesting too :)

Offline guttboy

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Just a thought Concerning Suicide Attacks
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2003, 12:58:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
We get guys coming into fields 3 or 4 times just to kill the fuel, ammo, and barracks. Its usually done over a large area. Thus crippling the fight over  a good 20 sectors,

As for CAP. Well, try and shoot down a guy coming in at over 480kias in a dive, who's not the slightest bit interested in you.

The suicide guys are starting to ruin the game for many people. Its gone beyond just taking out a CV, or hitting a field. They are crippling entire blocks now.

Perk any bomb 500kg's and over for JABO's. Or put some sort of ord attrition system in.


Sorry Vulcan but I respectfully have to disagree with this one.  Personally I feel that it is a very VALID tactic to take out the front lines of the enemy.  Its kinda tough when you have 50 guys rolling you over....hit the strats thats part of the game.

Suiciding in there isnt my style....personally I would like to stay alive but others may not.  

As for defense against the attacks...CAP should not just stay right over the base...push it out a few miles and intercept the "suiciders" before they get the chance to head in.

My two cents.... :)

Offline anton

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Just a thought Concerning Suicide Attacks
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2003, 01:29:46 AM »
I have been challenged to fly the P47 often this tour. A challenge I have accepted, In accepting this challenge I have made 4 attempts to kill CV in a hvy jug. Of those 4 attempts I died 1 time before I made target. The other 3 times I not only made it to the CV, But I scored kills with my ordinance AS I FLEW OUT  & AWAY from the fleet. Scoring kills with your ordinance dropped on a CV only happens when the ordinance HITS THE CV killing planes lifting/landing.

 So in short.... check yer skills.......


 You might also be good enuff to hit CV & live to tell about it, as well as kill some simpfires tryin to figure where to land now that thier boat is gone.  Suicide is never the answer.
Anton:cool:

Offline Vulcan

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Just a thought Concerning Suicide Attacks
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2003, 02:25:51 AM »
I'm not just talking the next field back from the front line. I'm talking every field we owned in a 6 x 6 grid (at least).

Today I logged on same thing again. 8 fields in one area SW, only one had 125% fuel available.

Besides, valid tactic does not equal suicide runs. These guys up in a P51, with two 1000lbers, 25% gas, WEP it full tit to target and hurtle in, completely ignoring any cap chasing them.  They have absolutely no intention of RTBing,  and the ride the plane into the ground. Its impossible to stop em 80% of them time. And we aren't talking just frontline bases, we're talking bases way back sometimes too.

Tactics are all valid and well and I agree there. When someone takes a one way mission, repeatedly, and loses plane after plane, then they should be penalized otherwise sooner or later you will log on to find every freakin base with 25% fuel. It wouldn't be that hard to do either.

The other thing that peeves me are the mass torp launches. IE Spawn PT, fire, spawn, fire, spawn, fire.



Quote
Originally posted by guttboy
Sorry Vulcan but I respectfully have to disagree with this one.  Personally I feel that it is a very VALID tactic to take out the front lines of the enemy.  Its kinda tough when you have 50 guys rolling you over....hit the strats thats part of the game.

Suiciding in there isnt my style....personally I would like to stay alive but others may not.  

As for defense against the attacks...CAP should not just stay right over the base...push it out a few miles and intercept the "suiciders" before they get the chance to head in.

My two cents.... :)

Offline Grizzly

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Re: Just a thought Concerning Suicide Attacks
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2003, 03:13:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
GET OVER IT!  :eek:

While I do not choose to participate in them, other's should be free to do as they choose.  Just because we disagree with a certain means to do something does not mean it is wrong!  The Japanese seemed to think it was fairly normal and quite honorable practice, as thousands volunteered to die for the emperor during WW2.


True, but they could only do it once.

Offline GPreddy

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Just a thought Concerning Suicide Attacks
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2003, 03:26:34 AM »
I like the jettison option. I would also like to see all of the guns on the cv be mannable and maybe even put some mannable 88mms at the airfields. Maybe charge perks for using the 88s I mean where are those cv gun perks going anyway?

Offline Charon

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Just a thought Concerning Suicide Attacks
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2003, 10:30:35 AM »
Defend against the suicide attack? Mighty hard in a close cap over a base when the enemy P-51/Typhoon screams in for a half a sector or more, locked in compressibility by the time it impacts the target. I've almost killed a lot of them. That's really it. You spend your time flying around in a LA7 trying for that one good angle that might let you stop one. Spit V or Zero used to be good base defense planes, but speed is it now.

Meet them on the way in? Assuming there is alt and position when the first wave is detected sure, at least once, until his 9 buddies kill you. Then you're part of the diminishing numbers just tying to get off the runway. Few of these attacks seem to get the job done on one mission, but by the time you up and get to the capped and vulched target at least a second wave has made it's run. And, of course, finding people on your team willing to face greater or equal odds in defense can be a challenge too, since many are off doing the same thing.

That's what it really comes down to - gameplay. Even without the suicide aspect these attacks are really hard to stop, because, we're seeing the arrival of the Big Pork. The egging fuel 1-2 sectors deep is the signature feature of that environment, and the final step to eliminating any real ability to stop the attack.

There are game players, whose main focus is on War Winning, maybe getting a vulch or gang kill in the process, and then there are those that like to primarily recreate the A2A experience of WW2 fighter combat, for whom loosing a good fight is better than landing a 6-vulch streak. Nothing new here, as has been discussed many times before. AW went through this, and now AH. I wouldn't blame the influx of AW players, this seems to be a pretty universal style of gameplay in online communities. In fact, it's arrival was quite a shock to AW players of the pre Gamestorm days. A simulation is hard to master. A2A is hard to master. You get your bellybutton handed too you for months getting up to speed, which can be hard on the ego unless you really love the era being simulated. I remember the excitement when I first started to get a positive K/D. Even in games like Quake, which are far easier to master at a basic level, you have spawn campers. Given a choice, the path of least resistance seems to win out.

Personally, I still find that the enjoyment value still outweighs the monthly/daily cost. When/if it doesn't, when you just can't find a good fight anymore (I have yet to regularly encounter the deep porkage that some have referred too), I'll start looking elsewhere. That’s why I’m here in the first place :)  I  do get the feeling that HT and Pyro are more the enthusiast type themselves, and want a game that balances all interests. In reality though, it’s hard to see how they can just ignore the gameplayers and the reality of the learning curve to potential new players who might be a bit less devoted to the era being simulated. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Charon
« Last Edit: January 07, 2003, 10:37:20 AM by Charon »

Offline DrDea/Kvorkian

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Just a thought Concerning Suicide Attacks
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2003, 11:51:24 AM »
A few simple Jabo runs to the bases launching these attackers and hitting there fuel is your answer.Hit there ammo.Look people.This is valid tactics.The augering in in the process is probebly 50\50 lack of skill /desire to get back up faster.Regardless,Hit em back.This crying about it isnt gonna do anything.If the rear line bases have short fuel or ammo then they wont be able to hit YOUR rear bases.

Offline Jackal1

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Just a thought Concerning Suicide Attacks
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2003, 11:51:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Defend against suicide attackers?  why legitimize their skilless attacks?   Why should their lack of talent need any special defence that requires patience and skill?   It would be much more fair to make the losers earn their bombs.   Since they are such losers they will have to find another area of the game to game.
lazs


Your saying their losers and skilless and lack talent? Your problem is slolved then. If their that bad there won`t be anything damaged. As far as the term "special defence", it`s not, It`s called base defense. Let`s face it, what your saying is you do not won`t to put any effort into defense , but you want to leave from an undamaged airfield so you can go furball.:)  Hell go to the DA, that`s what it is for. Hey I understand that a lot of players care nothing about base capture or who wins the game. What everyone is referring to as suicide is, for the most part, actualy just normal play. Coming into a fully supplied base is gonna result in a lot ack kills. If the player is actualy on a suicide run, they will never do enough damage to concern anyone. If it wasn`t for the guys sacraficing some by attacking bases and dieing a lot we would not need but 1 map for the game. If dogfighting is all you want to do, that`s your right, but don`t complain and and try to catagorize base attackers as suiciders, losers or skilless.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline DrDea/Kvorkian

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Just a thought Concerning Suicide Attacks
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2003, 11:54:53 AM »
Bravo at least YOU get it:)

Offline akak

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Just a thought Concerning Suicide Attacks
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2003, 12:00:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan


The other thing that peeves me are the mass torp launches. IE Spawn PT, fire, spawn, fire, spawn, fire.



Another new trend is spawning M3s near towns and releasing the troops at the spawn point and then spawning out to get more troops.


ack-ack