Author Topic: I told you so. (Read 502 times)

miko2d · « **on:** January 13, 2003, 12:43:29 PM »

Clonaid executive was subpoenaed Saturday to appear in Florida court, and the company was ordered to disclose the whereabouts of the baby girl and her mother.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-human-cloning0112jan11.story

That clearly violates patient confidentiality and presumption of innocence, etc. The state automatically assumes it is better qualified to deal with the child than parents and non-state associated doctors.
So they are trying to take away a child that may not even exist. The heck with evidence, due process, Constitution, etc.

miko

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2003, 02:25:26 PM »

Hmmm...

I fail to see the need to put the child into protective custody.

Of course, the parents and the doctors might be seeing some sort of charges pressed that would, at the very least, bring the issue of cloning to a head.

The organization announced it, the parents agreed to it, its been deemed illegal. They had to know this was coming.

Now is when things get serious.

AKDejaVu

miko2d · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2003, 02:46:44 PM »

The organization announced it, the parents agreed to it, its been deemed illegal. They had to know this was coming.

They did not break any law of this country (the cloning was performed elsewhere) and even if they did, even convicted criminals do not get their children taken away unless they specifically endanger them. There is not a shred of evidence to indicate that the baby is in any danger from her parents who allegedely went to such great length to create her.

That's just despotism at it's worse - "you do not share my religion, you are not allowed to have children", period.
If anything, such actions will endanger the child because parents may be hesitant to seek medical help in the future.

According to them, the very fact of conceiving the baby means endangering her. But without conception, there would be no one to endanger. Just by having a baby you lose right to have a baby - perfect catch-22.

miko

WineMan · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2003, 02:53:25 PM »

Well what did they think was going to happen? That's what they get for pulling that hoax - Poor child. The Raliens endangered the child by ever claiming they had cloned one...

AKIron · « **Reply #4 on:** January 13, 2003, 02:53:46 PM »

Maybe they are interested in determining whether or not this "procedure" was fully successful so that measures may be taken to prevent future occurences of suffering such as this child may experience if it wasn't. Protecting the innocent and defenseless is one of the purposes of our government.

miko2d · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2003, 03:07:17 PM »

That's what they get for pulling that hoax...

"Alleged" hoax. You can hardly prevent people from going public by a treat of taking away their child and then use that as proof of a hoax.

Protecting the innocent and defenseless is one of the purposes of our government.

There must be crime before you can start prosecution. A child endangerment means mistreating a child. Conceiving a child cannot be mistreating her since a child does not exist till then. After conception there is no indication the child was mistreated.
Government is not supposed to "prophylactively" take children away from parents just becauese they may conceivably endanger them. Especially if the only indication of a crime is "wrongfull thinking" on the part of the parents.

miko

Gunthr · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2003, 03:12:34 PM »

Based on the cloning experiments with other mammels, cloning could be dangerous to a child.

I mean, how would you feel if you reached the age of awareness to find out that you had been cloned... and that is why you had malfunctioning organs, or were condemned to a limited life span with sickness because of genetic problems?

If there is a significant probability that a clone will have these problems at a higher rate than normally conceived kids, we should not clone humans for that reason alone.

I'm for scientific progress, but not at the expense of an innocent.

The issue of whether the state has the responsibilty or right to insure the safety of the allegedly cloned child, is a different issue.

Once the cloned child is ex parte, I'd be against the state taking this child unless it really was endangered beyond any damage already caused by the cloning. Whats done is done, and no manmade law was broken, because no law had yet been written to prohibit cloning humans that I know of.

Hopefully, there will be a new law against cloning until we know more about its effects on children.

Pongo · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2003, 03:20:23 PM »

In order for the comic to be interesting the clone child must be isolated and raised by cold unfeeling scientists..They are just following the script.

WineMan · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2003, 04:24:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by miko2d
That's what they get for pulling that hoax...

"Alleged" hoax. You can hardly prevent people from going public by a treat of taking away their child and then use that as proof of a hoax.

Perhaps hoax is a bad choice of words - "Publicity stunt" for the Raelians would be better. If they were serious about having cloned a child, they could easily have gotten a neutral scientist and had all the proof ready when they made their announcement.

Airhead · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2003, 04:47:23 PM »

The Gay Nazi Party sees cloning as a way to finally expand their ranks without recruiting.

MrBill · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2003, 04:54:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gunthr
snip

I mean, how would you feel if you reached the age of awareness to find out that you had been cloned... and that is why you had malfunctioning organs, or were condemned to a limited life span with sickness because of genetic problems?

Which side of the issue do you see the lawyers backing?

Airhead · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2003, 05:04:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gunthr
Based on the cloning experiments with other mammels, cloning could be dangerous to a child.

I mean, how would you feel if you reached the age of awareness to find out that you had been cloned... and that is why you had malfunctioning organs, or were condemned to a limited life span with sickness because of genetic problems?

No biggie, Gunther. I'd kidnap the person I was cloned from, assume his identity and harvest his organs as mine failed.

Moloch · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2003, 05:27:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Airhead
The Gay Nazi Party sees cloning as a way to finally expand their ranks without recruiting.

If it's good enough for Palpatine......

Gunthr · « **Reply #13 on:** January 13, 2003, 08:11:09 PM »

Quote

Which side of the issue do you see the lawyers backing?

- MrBill

I don't really think the American Bar would take a stance on this issue as it relates to the morality or ethics of cloning. They tend to be Areligious as a whole.

I think most would probably be sniffing out whatever angle that they think could be massaged in order to turn over a dollar ...

But I'm sure there are exceptions...