Author Topic: Buran vs USA's space shuttle (Read 2233 times)

Russian · « **Reply #30 on:** January 14, 2003, 08:59:06 AM »

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Originally posted by NUKE

Russians are better at aerodynamics and mechanical things????
I could give a long list of US built aircraft that are superior in aerodynamics and design to what the Russians have built.

I'm listening

NUKE · « **Reply #31 on:** January 14, 2003, 09:01:21 AM »

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Originally posted by Thrawn
Nah, it was a high altitude, high speed interceptor. Unfortunately (fortunately?) it wasn't that good at the job it was designed for, so they turned it in to a spy plane.

The YF-12 interceptor was built to counter the percieved threat of high speed Russian nuclear equiped Bombers. None went into service. It wasnt that it "wasn't good at the job" so much as it wasn't needed.

NUKE · « **Reply #32 on:** January 14, 2003, 09:04:14 AM »

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Originally posted by Russian
I'm listening

OK Russian, I will present a list and you can counter the list using Russian equivilents that flew close to the same time. This will be fun:)

I'm off to work so check back tonight .

Rude · « **Reply #33 on:** January 14, 2003, 09:17:03 AM »

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Originally posted by Hortlund
Now lets see, how did the US get into the space race in the first place...hmmm...

Lots of Nazis on the NASA Payroll pal, I bet you didnt know that, or maybe you were just avoiding that pesky little fact. But Oopps, they were not nazis at all, because von Braun and his merry bunch of rocket scientists were all USA democrats deep inside.

You should try to think before you talk mr "USA is so good and everyone steals our technology", because when you dont, you are just displaying your ignorance in an arrogant manner that tends to piss people off.

German science played a very large roll in our technlogical growth for sure...the pisser for many of you I'm certain, is that we had the ability as a nation to not only sustain it, but to improve it and implement it as well.

When you boys across the pond start your pissy little insults, it only brings a smile to an American.

Jealousy and envy are not desirable traits.

Ike 2K# · « **Reply #34 on:** January 14, 2003, 09:22:40 AM »

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Originally posted by hawk220
LOL, the Trabant of space shuttles

the buran CAN FLY BY ITSELF AND SAVE $$$ BY NOT PUTTING 6 CREWS IN IT IF THEY GONNA CARRY SOME STUFF TO THE MIR. they reported that only 2 or 5 tiles were missing during the 1st flight compare to shuttle's 10-15

Ike 2K# · « **Reply #35 on:** January 14, 2003, 09:27:36 AM »

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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Generally speaking Russains tend to be better at aerodynmics and mechanical things, the USA tends to be better in electronics and overall sophistication and refinement.

it like saying they are (the russians) building toyota (toyota has a reputaion of being reliable) cars and we (usa) built planes like ferrari.

Russian · « **Reply #36 on:** January 14, 2003, 09:36:41 AM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
The YF-12 did have problems, but they were mostly related to its weapon systems. The plane itself was sound, as seen by the remarkable SR-71.

IIRC it had very little problem. It had to slow down to drop its bombs. Not very smart move when SAM are flying toward you. (Was that the reason only 3 converded?)

The only thing that I can think is similar is Cy-100.

How about M-7. IMO that’s aerodynamical and revolutionized.

(And no one else had anything that comes near)

Sikboy · « **Reply #37 on:** January 14, 2003, 09:38:44 AM »

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Originally posted by Ike 2K#

the buran CAN FLY BY ITSELF AND SAVE $$$ BY NOT PUTTING 6 CREWS IN IT IF THEY GONNA CARRY SOME STUFF TO THE MIR. they reported that only 2 or 5 tiles were missing during the 1st flight compare to shuttle's 10-15

Um... I thought the Buran was a monument to past glories? I don't think it can fly anything, including itself lol.
[edit] Ooops I stand corrected
http://k26.com/buran/Future/OK-TVA/ok-tva.html
[/edit]
My opinion: The Russians make em prettier. Especially ships.

-Sik

Stridr417 · « **Reply #38 on:** January 14, 2003, 10:01:21 AM »

Never underestimate the Russians! Jeez, they were winning the space-race handily until the US put a man on the moon. Any country that can do that deserves our greatest repect.

SLO · « **Reply #39 on:** January 14, 2003, 10:05:10 AM »

the SR-71 BlackBird was designed by a CANADIAN engineer working for the US:p

bounder · « **Reply #40 on:** January 14, 2003, 10:27:11 AM »

I was always rather impressed that the Chinese used oak planks as reentry heatshields.

The close grained resinous wood would carbonize and wick up resins to the surface where they would vaporise creating a plasma layer. The planks would gradually burn down, partially protected by the carbonized top layer.

A nameless nasa scientist remarked that it was 'an elegant solution'.

Sometimes low tech works better than high...

As for american miltary hardware, when it works it's the best: but what would you expect from a country that spends trillions of dollars on defence?

A trillion is more than you think it is.

Imagine you were immortal and fabulously wealthy. Imagine that on the day Christ was born you put twenty seven million US dollars into a 0% savings account. Now imagine that you saved another $27,000,000 every day without fail until today, you'd have a whole shedload of money right?

Well, yes you would, but you still wouldn't have as much money as the USA has spent on defence since 1945

(source: Bremner, Bird and Fortune)

miko2d · « **Reply #41 on:** January 14, 2003, 10:27:22 AM »

Stridr417: Never underestimate the Russians! Jeez, they were winning the space-race handily until the US put a man on the moon. Any country that can do that deserves our greatest repect.

They had obvious advantages of a collectivist system. They could mobilise scientific, labor and material resources in a very short term and on a massive scale even if that caused massive disruptions to the economy and famine, deprivation, even deaths to the population.

They had disposable people - actually willing to risk their lives in experiments/attempts rather than come up with safer ways to do things. Imagine how much fruitfull your development can be if you can use people like mice and monkeys. Also makes equipment simpler - no need for triple safety if 85% will do.

They had total secrecy, so they could repeat attempts untill successfull and then declare it to their population.

They did not have commercial and business opportunities, all salaries were the same, so an intelligent person was much more likely to end up in research in Soviet Union that an american. It did make the difference, despite low technical equipment of research facilities. When one computer costs 10 times more than an engineer's salary (I sold a PC-XT in 1989 for ~14,000 roubles with engineer salary around 140 roubles/month), you have plenty of qualified people (M.S.) standing around with soldering irons ensuring the precious computer is running or manually drafting the plans (no CAD). Someone is bound to come up with a good idea or two.

miko

AKIron · « **Reply #42 on:** January 14, 2003, 10:30:35 AM »

The US has much better secret alien Centaurian technology than the obsolescent Luytentian technology of the Russians.

CyranoAH · « **Reply #43 on:** January 14, 2003, 10:31:43 AM »

The Buran may be more capable in general terms than the Space Shuttle, but one thing that has to be taken into account when you talk space is "cost effective".

The Ariane 4 launcher, for example, was (no longer manufactured) a very fine launcher, and considered the safest in the world together with the Soyuz, but capable of putting in a GTO much heavier payloads.

As I said, it's no longer manufactured, as it has been replaced by the more powerful yet less reliable Ariane 5. Why? It is MUCH cheaper.

The Ariane 5 can carry up to 10 Tons now and has about 50% less parts than the Ariane 4, making it very cost-effective. True it has had some accidents, but the possibility of making dual launches makes it the preferred launcher in the world right now, with more than 40% of the commercial market.

From what I know, the Buran was a very fine piece of engineering, but it was very expensive as well... and having the Soyuz safely transporting people to space, it was more a political investment than a truly necessary one.

Even the space shuttle is barely cost effective in industrial terms, but its main "raison d'être" is the publicity of being an unique spaceship. You can do what the shuttle does with conventional launchers much cheaper, but it wouldn't be as spectacular.

Daniel

Sikboy · « **Reply #44 on:** January 14, 2003, 10:35:02 AM »

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Originally posted by AKIron
The US has much better secret alien Centaurian technology than the obsolescent Luytentian technology of the Russians.

No diggity man. People are forever discounting that.

-Sik