Author Topic: Affirmative Action (Read 6334 times)

StSanta · « **Reply #15 on:** January 16, 2003, 08:47:46 AM »

It's NEVER OK to go by race.

Imagine, if you will, a honour student with flawless grades, having done community job etc. This guy applies for Harvard.

Mr Joe Average, a white man form the middle class applies. TRhe hounor student doesn't get in because they want more 'racial diversity'.

The NAACP would be crying 'RACISM' sooner than you could blink. Suits would fly left and right.

And they'd be right. Except it seems some people understand racism as whites making negative comments about others. Which is racist in itself - it suggest that only whites consider themselves superior to other races.

Bush is right - I hate to say it. His plan to automatically include the top 10% from all high school is a better way to go. Som4e schools will have a majority of minorities (fun word play). There, a higher percentage will be non white amongst the 10% top students - and diversity is ensured.

Excluding white people because they're white is just as racist as excluding blacks for their colour. People need to realise that racism isn't a white thing only.

SOB · « **Reply #16 on:** January 16, 2003, 08:56:34 AM »

Yep, government mandated racism.

SOB

Gunthr · « **Reply #17 on:** January 16, 2003, 09:08:23 AM »

If government has to involve itself at all in college admissions, and I'm not sure that it should, Bush's plan would sure be more acceptable to me than what goes on now ... and it could help heal some of the bad feelings and stigma that attaches to "affirmative action" as it is presently perpetrated.

Unfortunately, there is a growing segment of the population that insists that not only should "affirmative action" continue unchanged, but they insist that it does not go far enough - that Reparations are demanded as being justly due - even though a given member of American society may not have ever discriminated against black people or even had ancestors who discriminated against them.

Their rationale is that as a non-black member of a racist society, you have benefited from racism, and you and your children therefore owe a debt to black people that must be paid.

capt. apathy · « **Reply #18 on:** January 16, 2003, 09:25:00 AM »

AA also promotes racist attitudes.

look at it objectivly.

lets say every company uses AA when hiring for all positions. giving 'x' number of extra points (on whatever scoring system they use) to blacks (or insert your opressed minority of the day). anyway, assuming people are going to get the best paying (usually hardest to get) job they can, logically and mathmaticly you can see that for any given possition the black would be the least qualified of any given team of workers. simply because if if he was even equal to the rest of his co-workers, he would be ahead of them in testing by whatever margine the AA bonus gives him and therefore working at a different job that pays more and requires a better score.

in this way AA guarentees that the minority is always the stupidest, least qualified member at any given level of an AA company. perpetuating the myth that all members of this race are stupid. you can say all the PC crap you want but if you rig the system up so every time someone meets a member of a minority on a professional level this minority is the least qualified person avilable, you can't really be suprised when these people develope stereo types about the minoritys (for most sane people personal experience counts more than PC retoric).

Montezuma · « **Reply #19 on:** January 16, 2003, 01:53:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gunthr
25 - 30 years ago, original date of application is probably more like mid 70's.

Well, without turning this into a Lexis/Nexis research project... I would hazard a guess that the Detroit Sheiff's dept. had deliberately discriminated against minorities for decades and that the system was imposed by a court.

I don't support affirmative action now, but I think that the date might put it in context.

Ping · « **Reply #20 on:** January 16, 2003, 01:54:31 PM »

Does this mean that GWB is taking affirmative action against affirmative action?

StSanta · « **Reply #21 on:** January 17, 2003, 03:01:00 AM »

Man, I am gonna get rich when I get reparations from Sweden.

AND from Denmark. I lived there too. And as I have said in other debates, I shall get poor again when I have to pay the French and Brits.

Gunthr · « **Reply #22 on:** January 17, 2003, 08:18:29 AM »

Quote

Well, without turning this into a Lexis/Nexis research project... I would hazard a guess that the Detroit Sheiff's dept. had deliberately discriminated against minorities for decades and that the system was imposed by a court.

- Montezuma

I agree that discrimination may have existed prior to my application, Montezuma, but I rather doubt there was anything deliberate or sinister about it. I think it was a matter of not being able to get enough qualified black applicants.

The past view of the courts on this kind of so-called discrimination has been:

" It is not necessary to prove that someone intended to discriminate against you: it is sufficient only to show that the outcome of their action was that you received less favourable treatment." I disagree.

I don't doubt that AA was court ordered at the time I applied to the Sheriff's Dept. However, I still believe it was fundementally wrong and unfair to change requirements depending on what race you are.

Some interesting facts:
When I applied to, and worked at the Wayne County Sheriff's Department in Detroit, the Sheriff was a black man, and he had held office for years before I considered applying there. The Chief of the Detriot Police Department was a black man. The population of the City of Detroit had a majority of black citizens. The mayor of the City of Detroit was a black man. The inmate population of the Wayne County Jail was over 70% black inmates.

Remember that just because a court has ordered some kind of remedy for what it has percieved as some kind of discrimination doesn't mean that this is an absolute truth. Perceptions change. Court decisions are challenged, and their decisions can be, and are reversed.

lazs2 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 17, 2003, 08:23:37 AM »

Allways better to stick with white male proffessionals... they probly had to earn their degree and stature. I am partial to men of jewish persuassion when I need a lawyer or a doctor or a comedian.

lazs

midnight Target · « **Reply #24 on:** January 17, 2003, 10:10:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
Allways better to stick with white male proffessionals... they probly had to earn their degree and stature. I am partial to men of jewish persuassion when I need a lawyer or a doctor or a comedian.

lazs

Absolutely right Lazs. For example, I always look for an inbred white cracker missing teeth when I bet on a tabacky spitting contest, and those guys with the dunce cap hats are really good at burning cross shaped objects.

Ping · « **Reply #25 on:** January 17, 2003, 10:17:07 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
I am partial to men

Laz..say it aint so...Git Back in the Closet.

Ping · « **Reply #26 on:** January 17, 2003, 10:19:12 AM »

Its obvious that at 1 point something had to be done. Look at the trouble the Tuskagee Airmen had to face.
Since that time its gone too far the other way, the same applies here in Canada.

DrDea/Kvorkian · « **Reply #27 on:** January 17, 2003, 11:08:46 AM »

Flight of the intruder.

Drop it on me Sandy.I'd do it for you.

lazs2 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 17, 2003, 11:27:34 AM »

MT... yes... you would get good results at that end of the spectrum too. I got no problem with that. course... you find very little afirmative action in those fields. Same for say..... basketball.

ping... it isn't so. (not that there's anything wroing with that).
lazs

MrLars · « **Reply #29 on:** January 17, 2003, 11:41:18 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gunthr

Some interesting facts:
When I applied to, and worked at the Wayne County Sheriff's Department in Detroit, the Sheriff was a black man, and he had held office for years before I considered applying there. The Chief of the Detriot Police Department was a black man. The population of the City of Detroit had a majority of black citizens. The mayor of the City of Detroit was a black man.

If this was during the late 60's to early 70's and you changed the city to Dearborn you'd get the exact oposite racial makeup with blacks being excluded in virtualy all catagories including population.

Not challenging your points, just saying you could find these kinds of racial favoritism often very close to eachother geographicaly back then.