Author Topic: Sunday TOD AAR (Read 655 times)

Grayarea · « **on:** January 19, 2003, 02:59:47 PM »

Hi all,

56 Firebird was tasked with escorting a bomber strike to P31, we launched 4 109F4 and 2 MC202s.

The strike force seemed to seperate into two units and so we covered both forces with 2 planes and a floating 2 plane scout.

When we arrived at Crete 56FG were heavely engaged over P31, our forces were somewhat spread out and we all turned to P31 and made best speed.

Unfortunatly we were unable to do much dammage to the enemy CAP arriving in small units and being attacked by a large enemy CAP of Spit Vs and P40s.

All planes lost.

~~All was fun anyway.~~

Sancho · « **Reply #1 on:** January 19, 2003, 03:38:14 PM »

With the puny forces I had available timing was crucial. seems the 332 guys misinterpreted the orders and took a more direct path to target and actually arrived at P31 before their escorts. I have no idea what they were thinking, but I won't place the blame on them for our loss. I was late getting the orders out and there were just too many allied fighters flown by excellent squads. allies

Only bright spot of the day was the allied ground assault at V58 got owned by our panzer all-stars.

--
sancho

funkedup · « **Reply #2 on:** January 19, 2003, 04:08:20 PM »

First off to Fariz 9 GIAP who had to take on some sharp Panzer troops in their wimpy LVT's and halftracks. They made a great effort, and if the frame hadn't been called early, we could have strafed V58 and 9 GIAP could have taken it with their remaining M3 Dantoo, who should get the Victoria Cross for persistence.
(This is not a whine, I'm the one who asked if Axis wanted to call it a day.)

About the fight at P31:

I wondered why those 110's were early. We were told to defend A33 or P31. So when I saw unescorted 110's, I thought it was a feint to P31, to be followed by a main attack on A33. So I held back the P-40's over A33.

Seafires (MAG 33) and Spits (308) clobbered the 110's and then met the lead waves of 109s, 202s, and Ju 88s. When I heard about the Ju 88s I realized P31 was the main assault so I called Wings of Death and 880 Sqn to bring their P-40's from A33.
308 and MAG 33 took about 2/3 losses here but killed most of the Ju 88's and broke up the escort.

Right as the wave of Stukas entered the battlezone, WoD/880 showed up with altitude and fresh P-40's and then we had a real furball with all Allied air squadrons involved. From my tower vantage (I was shot down by a Ju 88 gunner after two victories), It looked like the Allied fighters prevailed.

After that there were a few engagements with a stray Ju 88, a couple of C-47's, and a few 109s, but we had numerical superiority at that point and it was pretty much academic.

~~Allies, Axis, and CM's.~~

lucull · « **Reply #3 on:** January 19, 2003, 08:49:05 PM »

We had SpitV ??? Why did I fly with Spit1

Actually, you were engaged by 7mm bean shooters

Dantoo · « **Reply #4 on:** January 19, 2003, 11:48:19 PM »

We spawned to V58 with an entirely inadequate force to do an impossible task. A quick scouting run indicated 3 panzers in attendance (one would have been enough). Our only option was to run, which is a peculiar way to attack. This tactic was a direct response to a vehicle set that did not include a single type that can kill a panzer.

Even this option was denied us as the terrain was completely buggy. On this map there are strange equivalents of the small white rocks of the main arena. They appear as a "floating spider web" about half a vehicle length in front of you. If you are not carefully poking along in first gear you inevitably hit one and die.

Now we were left with can't go forward and can't go back option. Markal carefully worked up a hill to try the innovative concept of running them out ammunition and tempting them into the minefield. Eventually a "spider" killed him. The rest stayed below the crest of the ridge until a panzer came up. There was an attempt to combine our firepower to disable a track on a tank. This proved to be undoable. The tank (Furzy I think) "brewed up" our people one by one.

I got onto a road and headed east at high speed until it ran out shells landing all around. It was back to first gear and slowly edging through the minefield with blunder and f6bomber who tried to come with me as cover. "Spider-bugs" blew them to bits shortly after. How long did this take? At about this time Flossy said "Fields are closed".

I drove in first gear mainly south through the high country, saw the snow, spotted the circling goon, the inbound JU88's and then turned west. I was not going to just park and wait it out lest some fool accuse me of "cheating." Near the depot I headed north and back down the mountains to the coast. I was joined by Fariz who came along to keep me company. I asked through him for a scout to check the vehicle base or someone to deack the airfield, as I was half between both. I was then informed that it was over and that my hour and half, inch by inch effort through that minefield in first gear was wasted. I broke down and protested (sorry but I just lost it there) but if the efforts of my squad mates meant anything at all I felt I should have the right to complete the task I was entrusted with.

Fariz gunned the ack at the vehicle base with the M3 pop gun and I dropped the troops. The base was of course bugged and was not in fact able to be taken at all by gv's. The CM's observed the "capture" from the tower and conceded it.

Thanks to those who participated. Thanks to my squadmates who are the ones that really deserve the VC's for standing and dieing so I could run and keep our precious troops alive.

funkedup · « **Reply #5 on:** January 20, 2003, 12:13:17 AM »

~~9 GIAP. If it were my choice, nobody would have been in GVs.~~

Sancho · « **Reply #6 on:** January 20, 2003, 09:23:01 AM »

GV duty sucks when all you want to do is fly. Rather than commit an entire squad, I had each squad cough up one pilot to do GVs at 58. I though you all would have panzers or air support which might have made the 58 capture work since we didn't have any friendly aircraft in the area early on.

Dantoo · « **Reply #7 on:** January 20, 2003, 10:18:50 AM »

Thanks for the thoughts guys. I'd really like to make a couple of points clear.

I have no objection to gv duty.
I do believe it is an interesting option to include in scenarios and would hate to see it removed.

TOD is a hard balancing act. It is important that each player has the opportunity to take part in an effective manner. If a player believes that they have just wasted 2 hours without that opportunity being present they will not return. The other side of the scales is that a player should carry the responsibility to exit the arena alive at the close of business.

If a scenario simply had the concept of "take up a fighter - furball until all are dead - see you in the MA" then there would be little point in entering the SEA. CO's need to be presented with mulitiple choices for both offence and threat. This makes them think. CO's should be busier than a one armed paper hanger. That does not mean of course that a scenario cannot be about a historical event where one side is generally on the offensive whilst the other side is generally defensive.

Squad leaders carry the responsibility to get their people out alive. This really needs to be made clear and should be lauded more. Attacking everything red without a thought to life and assigned task/duty should be strongly discouraged. TOD's that are exhausted in thirty minutes went badly wrong no matter which side won.

My specific difficulty with one small part of an overall, well thought out, 3 week TOD is this:

The historic reality necessarily has to be modified for the purposes of gameplay. The server cannot contain 1.5 million combatants. We are here for fun. Just because the British Commonwealth defended Crete with 2 pounder anti-tank guns and we don't have them in the set doesn't mean that the ANZAC's at Suda Bay in this scenario should be killed pointlessly. God knows enough of them were 60 years ago. The simple addition of even a limited number of M8's would have given the gv squad an option to fight and a reason for the Axis squad to be cautious. A simple pre-scenario drive around the arena in an M3 may have exposed the terrain bug including the no-capture bug at V58. Last minute orders and changes are not new in TOD.

CM's we love the work you do. Being a CM is like being a Premier League goalkeeper. Do your job well and noone notices. Let one in and the masses howl. I admire the work that you do and deeply appreciate it. I was grumpy yesterday and pensive today for that I apologise. Hopefully see you all there after Niemen.

Sancho · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2003, 03:47:43 AM »

CMs assigning all objectives in TOD. They tell the offense what target to hit and the defense which areas to defend. This is to guarantee action. Unfortunately, the end result is most of the strategy in TOD is who can group the largest group of fighters in an area to win by overwhelming force.

Compounding the problem is I doubt most squads out there have the attitude of "fly to live". "take up a fighter - furball until all are dead - see you in the MA" is an apt description of what most TODs are like.

Is there an easy solution? No. Try saying you have one life for a TOD. One life for 3 frames. See if there would be a difference in the way things are done. I doubt it would be very popular though.