Current bnase captures vs History

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

The current BOB map is a delite for the axis flyers, including bomber pilots. As in history, the axis bombers in this map rule. The Ju-88s are a nightmare. Three flights (nine planes)can close a city fast, be a royal pain in the bellybutton over an airfield.

I thought this BOB terrain was for the bomber pilot, includding Bf-110 pilots. The Spit I and Hurricans are no more than the "Zeros" of the ETO.  If the axis guys would get it together, use the Bf-109s and Bf-110s as escorts for massive Ju-88 bomber operations.......OUCH! This would be one hell of a map. Raid after raid destroying fighter hangers would end it for the Allied pilots with 60 min down times on hangers, 30 min downtimes on field acts.

Who needs field captures?

Use the map for what it was designed for, capture or no capture, and the allieds dont stand a chance.

Each tuesday and thursday night is the beginning of WWII in the ETO.
CMs can control it just like they control the six life rule. CMs can close the fields when it get pounded hard enough or use a 60 min or so down time.

Use it!

[Miska]

No wonder it is so cold outside!  I agree with hawk!!

[keyapaha]

ju88's are good here but can be nutrualized if attacked in packs the solo spit of hurri pilot dont stand a chance even if he uses slash tatics will take for ever to down a ju88.I personally fly the ju88 often in this set up and the solo pilot dosnt much bother me but get 2 or 3 I become worried less they crawl up my six then I just lol as the pull their chutes.

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

I agree Key. I remember our Ju-88 days. I remember being bored just waitting for a lonely slow six attack from a spit  Slash attacks just made it more fun.

Gangbanging a Ju-88, as you say, is about the only way to bring them down......if you can catch them!

I spit in "furballings" face, lets get some missions going on squad nights.

Current setup, Ju-88 invasions over England with Spits and Hurri's intercepting! urah urah!!

[Wotan]

the spit 1 is 55 mph faster the the ju88 if you cant catch one its because your climbing up from lo 6 to get him.

even a group of 3 ju88s has a limited firing arc. If you attack ju88s from the 3 / 9 position you nuetralize his firing arc and are in a position to reverse for another attack without taking yourself out of position. In a ho run or 6 attack after you make a pass you need to reverse. This will put you in the position of bleading speed. A ju88 can shallow dive and keep your closure at a minimum exposing you to the tail guns even longer.

The ju88 is not hard to shoot down. You just need to pick your spots.

The boston is faster then any plane in the setup. The 110 is no faster then the 109 and doesnt climb as well. (at most 5mph at alt).

The allies are are no more of a disadvantage in a BoB set up then the Axis are when attacking b17s or b26s. Theres no comparing an a6m2 vrs an fm2 because the spit and 109 are about equal in performance to 22k. In fact the spit rolls much better. The 110c has a glass tail.

The "whoo is me" and the "grass in greener on the other side" is mostly nonsense if you understand the capabilities of the plane you are flying.

If you find youself chasing ju88s from lo rear quarter ,level to build speed and over take the from the flank. After you get ahead and have sufficient speed take a position at the formations hi 8 9 or 10 and make attacks from here targeting the wing and engs. Be carefull not to fly accross the rear guns and set up on the hi 2 3 4 and repeat.

Be wary that the ju88 pilot will turn to get his guns on you. Watch and adjust to keep out of his guns. You wont get the instant kills that hispanos and 50s give but you keep yourself from being killed. Then call in your friends.

As for fighting 110s there are only rearly a threat if they are above you. Both the hurri and the spit can out fly them. You wanna get them to bleed there e. Constantly turn into him to make him reverse. Keep out of the gunsite and after a few reverses you should regain the advantage.

You ever fought a p51b in g6? or climbed to 28k in an a8 to intervept 50+ b17s with p38ls flying top cover?

I would rather go after a ju88 in hurri 1.

And yes I have killed multiple ju88s in a hurri in 1 flight. 4 was my max in a previous bob set up.

Anyway my 2 cents

[ergRTC]

?wotan?

Where do you get your plane data?

Yeah boston is fastest at 3.5k  whooopppeee


Unloaded with 25% fuel, that ju88 really moves at alt.  Hurricane has no chance, and the spit has to be very careful.  1 or 2 slashes and you have lost so much speed that the ju88 can nearly reach germany before your back on it again.


I am not complaining, as this is the way it should be, but just listing top speeds without relevance to alt is not accurate.

Just like da spit is 30 mph or so faster than anything else in the game, but only from 17-20k or so.  Not a whole lot of room there.  ANd at that alt your climb blows chunks.

[Wotan]

the ju88 hits max speed at 17.5k. that speed is 287 mph. Now go test the hurri and the spit. The spit 1 will do 360 at 17.5k.

My numbers are tested, or do you think I am some n00b?

They are both faster then the ju88 at all alts.

The boston does 315 mph at sea level. Its does 335 at 12k. At 12k on wep the 110 does 320 and the 109 does 325. Now go test the 110 and  109.

Even on wep at sea level the boston is faster then both.

Heres another little fact, the ju88 could escape spits in real life when the spits and hurris were climbing to intercept. They would shallow dive away. The problem isnt the ju88s speed its the tactics that some use to intercept. On egress after a bombing run the ju88s escaped quite easily in rl.

Now go grab an 190a8 and try a b17 at 28k. I got those numbers too. That will learn ya real good.

1 set up once in blue moon allies have to attack an axis bomber in less then uber planes. What do we hear? The ju88 is too fast......

You need to setup your passes ahead of the 88s. You have continue to reposition after each pass. The ju88 has a limited firing arc stay out of the rear areas and it wont hit you. If you attack from 3 9 you never get out of position.

I have flown ju88s in bob set ups and I have flown both the hurri 1 and spit 1 against them. They werent to difficult to kill.

If you dont believe me do your own tests and  post the results that contradict me.

The real question is where do you get your data? Didja just make it up?

[ergRTC]

I use the very nice tool setup by these guys.

http://www.jannousiainen.net/online_sims/jg_4/

And since your numbers seem close to these, that means your numbers are at 100% fuel load.

lose some fuel and eggs and the ju88 is a much faster plane.

Much like the lancaster and b17 and 30k.


If you use that tool and look at the spit 110 109 ju88 and boston,

The boston is toast shortly after it breaks 5k.

Now, your numbers seem to be a little more on the line of mentioning the few strengths like I mentioned above.  3.5k for the boston, and 17k for the spit.  Anywhere else and these guys are in trouble.

I am not saying this is not accurate as I mentioned above, I am just saying that you have an overly optimistic view of allied performance.

[Squire]

The real points have been left out here.

110C-4, 2 x 20mm and 4 x7,9 nose mounted vs a BostonIII with no low 6 gun positions at all.

HurricaneI with 8 x 303s vs a Ju88 with low 6 gun positions, firing in a 3 plane formation.

Thats the issue.

[Wotan]

The issue here is the percieved ju88s "uber speed".

Boston gun loadout is hardly the "issue". Read the thread again. The bostons there as a gameplay concession anyway.

Those 9 7 mm guns on the ju 88 are only effective with prolonged burts. We have lethality test and those 9 7mm are about equal to 4 50s.

So whats the trick? Dont climb to ju88s from lo 6. He can use his speed up and keep you in his guns longer.  You should build speed and pass him on the flank. Then when you have good seperation climb out in front. Then attack from the 3 9 line.



Erg

I dont use that site mine are actual tests of the ah planes. Nothing is stopping you from testing them yourself.

Jochens data from that is site just taken straight from the ht charts. There are errors as well.

The fact is the hurri and spit are faster then then ju88  at any alt or speed.

I was Axis co for the BoB scenario I have tests for everything. Fuel load effects level speed very little. Flying with overloaded ord (4 x 500 and 20 x 50) has a greater impact. Fuel load effects climb and acceleration.

It just takes a bit longer to get to max speed with say 75 instead of 25%.

FYI the fuel burn rate on the ju88 is porked. Infact it could fly alot longer on less fuel then we can in ah.

As for 303s being hard to bring down a ju88, the he 111 was tougher plane. But even so read the Alan Peart thread where he says that shooting down a ju88 was tough with 303s.

[ergRTC]

I think we are crossing points here.  I am not argueing anything is porked.  I think everything is the way it should be.  I want you to go and chase a few empty ju88s with a hurricane or spit then get back to me.  It is hard to kill em, and it is hard to catch em.  Just as in RL.  I am just complaining about your rosey perspective on the matter.

ju88 126 spit 1 kills
spit 1 116 ju88 kills

What I find entertaining is the this

ju88 37 hurri kills
hurri  38 ju88 kills

If you cant catch it, it cant kill you!

Very strange  how the numbers have turned out, considering in previous bobs spits and hurris held up against the 109.  Spits are doing terribly this time

109 629 dead spits
spits 398 dead 109s.

Same ratio if not higher for 110s vs
 spits.


Remember, I am not saying that anything is wrong, just dont paint too rosey a picture of allied odds in here.



Oh, the java chart is rather useful for determining what planes do.  Of course its not perfect, but it is often better than some guy doing his own tests (I have seen some pretty crazy stuff about 190s in other threads  )

[Shane]

Originally posted by ergRTC
Very strange  how the numbers have turned out, considering in previous bobs spits and hurris held up against the 109.  Spits are doing terribly this time
109 629 dead spits
spits 398 dead 109s.
Same ratio if not higher for 110s vs spits.
Remember, I am not saying that anything is wrong, just dont paint too rosey a picture of allied odds in here.
 

it's not so much reflective of the odds (which allies usually have) as it is reflective of, well.... you fill in the blank.

[VOR]

There have been alot of 109's and 110's get away from me after I ping them up. Either they straight outpace me or I choose not to follow them into their ack or buddies and break off. On the other hand, was chasing a 109 across the channel and hit him from 400+ with about a half second burst (I intended to just range my guns on him) and his wing popped right off. Dunno if that was a lucky shot or if all my other shots are "unlucky".

Done a few 109 sorties as well and found the mg ff cannons are no bruisers either, and you had better be sure of your shot with them. Considering my gunnery is average at best I feel good to get 2 kills without rearming.


VOR

[ergRTC]

Shane of course it has to do with pilot skill.

You get quite a bit of errr... practice.

Shane hours since 1-02?

122


ergRTC hours since 1-02?

13



Shane that's 5.5 hours a day.  You have got to be about 12 years old to have that much free time to be on a computer.  I would salute your fine AH  skills, but I do not salute anybody who spends their life playing video games.

[Shane]

Originally posted by ergRTC
Shane of course it has to do with pilot skill.
You get quite a bit of errr... practice.
Shane hours since 1-02?
122
ergRTC hours since 1-02?
13
Shane that's 5.5 hours a day.  You have got to be about 12 years old to have that much free time to be on a computer.  I would salute your fine AH  skills, but I do not salute anybody who spends their life playing video games.

tsk.. there go the skill-less slobberdonkeys with the RL insults.  even if i flew only 5 hrs a *month* i'd still be better than someone with no skills or talent like you.  if you lose some of the anal retentiveness, you might find yourself flying better.

or simply... fly on the sides without a numerical advantage, engage and *learn* to fly the planes.  *then* you *might* eventually become more than barely adequate.

i mean c'mon 1.8 kills per HOUR?!?  0.38 kills per SORTIE?!?!?   0.58 kills per DEATH!

that's.... lacking.  it just shows that you're not very good. at all. you've been playing over a year now.

TA ---->

go check it out.