What is a STALL?

[Widewing]

Originally posted by GPreddy
Stall maybe but this beast would kill in a low altitude spin. Ive forgotten who the test pilot was but he was sent to Curtiss by Chenault to try the P40 out before leaving for Burma and eventual assignment to the Flying Tigers. During his first flight he spun the P40 from under 3k and only recovered at about 20ft. It was written in the book up until that time that a spin that low was impossible to recover from. It was he that learned you had to fly the plane out and that normal spin recovery methods would not work. I want to say Don Anderson or maybe Tex Hill. Maybe WideWing knows.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of who this might be. I can check though. Curtiss did send test pilots to China to assist Chennault's people. Senior Curtiss test pilots at the time were B.T. Hulse, Ed Elliott, Herb Fisher, H.L. Childs, William Webster and Robert Fausel.

Fisher spent a great deal of time in the CBI working with P-40s and C-46s, eventually flying over a hundred combat missions. He was the only civilian pilot to be awarded the USAAF's Air Medal (personally by FDR).

My regards,

Widewing

[ra]

Off the top of my head, I can't think of who this might be.

I read a similar account by Corky Meyer, Grumman test pilot.  He was flying a P-40 for some reason, and as he was used to tame Grumman stall charateristics, he managed to get the P-40 into a spin.  He was told later that no one had ever managed to recover a P-40 spin in less than 5000 feet before.

ra

[Shiva]

Originally posted by Terror
As a side note to the "AHII FM" thread.  Some people seem to have a misunderstanding of what a stall is....  (and I didn't want to hijack the thread.)

I'm sure that everyone knew what a stall was before you started this thread. A stall is when someone answers "two weeks" to the question "When will the next version of AH be out?"...    

[Heater]

Originally posted by GPreddy
WldThing I believe that was probably an inverted flat spin. It is possible to recover a pony from this but it takes a lot of altitude. The procedure is quite similar to the recovery process of an F16 in a deep stall.

1) release controls
2) throttle to idle
3) rudder opposite to yaw direction
4) Override (in the P51 you dont have a manual pitch override)
5) cycle stick in phase to nose oscillation or pitch bobbing

When the nose stays down and airspeed starts to climb your out. Dont get heavy handed again


 

Nice quote but from the Falcon 4.0 book,

In reality throttle would go to Mil power in the F-16 which btw is almost impossible to get in to a deep stall However it can be done but you have to work very hard at it!

The process for the F-16 it's as follows

A2.9. OUT-OF-CONTROL RECOVERY:
(1) Controls - Neutral
(2) Throttle - MIL if in AB
IF IN AN INVERTED DEEP STALL:
*(3) Rudder - Opposite Yaw Direction (Delete This Step if the Aircraft has TV Code 105)
IF IN AN UPRIGHT DEEP STALL OR STILL IN AN INVERTED DEEP STALL:
(4) MPO Switch - OVRD and Hold
(5) Stick - Cycle in Phase

[GPreddy]

cc heater but wont work in p51 that way. This is the only way I have recovered one in aces high and fortunately it started at 28k and the g10 behind me compressed. If I hadnt flown other games I wouldnt have figured it out.

[Aub]

Originally posted by Oedipus
"The procedure is quite similar to the recovery process of an F16 in a deep stall."

lol.   (.... talk about deja vu.....)

Are you telling us from experience, repeating something you read in a book or were told by someone who knows?

Dying to know

Oed

I've heard there are some scorpions that know quite a bit about this

[GPreddy]

You could fill a thimble with what you know on this subject aub and still have a thimble of nothing.

[Aub]

Originally posted by GPreddy
You could fill a thimble with what you know on this subject aub and still have a thimble of nothing.

*looks around* I was just trying to answer Oed's question! I'm innocent!

And how come ya jumped on me, and not him, cutie pie

[2flie]

it is so hard to get an F-16 to get into a deep stall is you have to beat the flight computer at its own game, which is...keep the plane flying. There are several parameters that you must exceed intentionally, excessively, and at the same time in order to distract the computer from its task.

Let's put it this way, it is a task that must be taught to instructor pilots in order for them to put it into a stall so they may evaluate a student on the task of stall recovery.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by 2flie
it is so hard to get an F-16 to get into a deep stall is you have to beat the flight computer at its own game, which is...keep the plane flying. There are several parameters that you must exceed intentionally, excessively, and at the same time in order to distract the computer from its task.

Let's put it this way, it is a task that must be taught to instructor pilots in order for them to put it into a stall so they may evaluate a student on the task of stall recovery.

When are you going to get your bellybutton back in the p-47 and start flying again?  About high time you show Frenchy how a P-47 is really flown

Ack-Ack

[2flie]

Why do I feel like I'm being setup?

I'll tell you the truth, it will be months, perhaps years, even if I do show up in the MA, before I regain SA. Needless to say that there are tons of people more familiar with the edges of the envelope and capabilities of this airframe that I will be practicing for quite some time within the arena before I'm showing anyone how to "really fly" it.

(What's the altitude limit in the MA, anyways?)

[DamnedRen]

Speaking of stalls its interesting to note the Discovery Wings channel did a one hour show on US Navy pilots, flying F-18's, training with a German outfit that flew Mig-29's. I believe it was a joint Nato venture designed to teach differences training and tactics to it's signatories.

What caught my attention was in a mock dog fight the Mig actually roped an F-18. If I remember right the F-18's HUD was showing 45 knots as he stalled, nose up. What was cool was he kept stiring the stick trying to recover. Finally, he took both hands off the stick and put them on the canopy grab handles. The F-18 then auto recovered as it was programmed to do. That was the first time I had seen a programmed recovery in a fighter. I looked into it some more and it seems a CAT launch has the pilot grab'n the handles for a "hands off" takeoff. When I was messing around with the Skyhawk A-4M sim at Memphis NAS. The standard CAT launch had you tuck yer elbows in so as to minimize stick movement during the shot. Times sure have changed.

[Nomde]

Originally posted by 2flie
Why do I feel like I'm being setup?

Because you are

Originally posted by 2flie
What's the altitude limit in the MA, anyways?

Come on up, we'll show ya up close and personal like

Why you stirrin up trouble AKAK? Speaking of which, it's getting time to come on up and hunt you down, hehe

bro

[Terror]

Originally posted by 2flie
(What's the altitude limit in the MA, anyways?)

To take this literally....  I've been over 100K ft before getting bored and diving to my death.  Twas in a ME163 at the 2002 AH CON.

As a note: at 50K ft AH quits calculating air density and resets to Sea Level.  (Or at least thats how it seems....)

Terror

[Blue Mako]

Originally posted by DamnedRen
I looked into it some more and it seems a CAT launch has the pilot grab'n the handles for a "hands off" takeoff. When I was messing around with the Skyhawk A-4M sim at Memphis NAS. The standard CAT launch had you tuck yer elbows in so as to minimize stick movement during the shot. Times sure have changed.

F/A-18's have (had?) a really big problem with pilot-induced-oscillations at take off.  Simplest fix: get the pilot out of the loop.