Author Topic: .50 cal questions.....(tank v. planes)(how to kill tanks) (Read 1577 times)

fdiron · « **Reply #30 on:** July 26, 2000, 11:12:00 PM »

Ok, let me start off by saying this is a true story

I saw on the discovery channel a program about navy seals. They were showing the different weaponry that they used. One of them was a 50cal sniper rifle. Heres the interesting part. They showed an american sniper firing a 50cal AP round at a russian T72 tank and it penetrated the front of the turret armor. Wow. I believe the range was about 100m.

Fishu · « **Reply #31 on:** July 27, 2000, 12:13:00 AM »

just whine, bypass

[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 08-01-2000).]

Fishu · « **Reply #32 on:** July 27, 2000, 12:14:00 AM »

just whine, ignore

[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 08-01-2000).]

BigJim · « **Reply #33 on:** July 27, 2000, 01:11:00 AM »

OK Fishu no sense talking to you anymore you just twist the facts to suit yourself, you refuse to face ANY possibility that YOU may be wrong, and then you sign with some snide remark inviting someone to "fly off the handle" it's a neat trick when you don't have a case or leg to stand on to try and ridicule to change the view away from the facts but IN FACT you are wrong plain and simple and the armour vehicle stats you quoted were also WRONG I went and looked and got the stats myself from the net without much trouble. Well I have had enough discussion with you on this to see that facts mean nothing to you unless they prove YOUR point otherwise just pretend they don't exist right???

BigJim

Fishu · « **Reply #34 on:** July 27, 2000, 11:34:00 AM »

just whine, ignore

[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 08-01-2000).]

eskimo · « **Reply #35 on:** July 27, 2000, 05:19:00 PM »

I just felt like crunching some numbers and heres what I found:

So far this tour (6):

2573 Panzers have killed each other.

Panzers have a K/D over all aircraft of 2:1 !

Fighters have killed 1424 panzers.

Only 5 aircraft have K/D ratios beyond 0.43 ( the rest had K/D's of 0.36 to 0.06)

The tank killers and K/D ratios are:

F4U1-C 1.70
Typhoon 1.04
B-26B 0.81
B-17G 0.78
Spit-IX 0.74

eskimo

Fishu · « **Reply #36 on:** July 27, 2000, 05:29:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by eskimo:
I just felt like crunching some numbers and heres what I found:

So far this tour (6):

2573 Panzers have killed each other.

Panzers have a K/D over all aircraft of 2:1 !

Fighters have killed 1424 panzers.

Only 5 aircraft have K/D ratios beyond 0.43 ( the rest had K/D's of 0.36 to 0.06)

The tank killers and K/D ratios are:

F4U1-C 1.70
Typhoon 1.04
B-26B 0.81
B-17G 0.78
Spit-IX 0.74

eskimo

Many of those fighters killed by panzers are fighters that has either rammed into the panzer or crashed while trying to strafe it..
When I we're driving a tank, every fourth time someone crashed...
hows the 190A vs. panzer?

Fishu · « **Reply #37 on:** July 27, 2000, 05:34:00 PM »

Ouch.. I just checked 190A-5 and 190A-8 stats against Pz-IV..
190A-5 K/D: 45 / 135
190A-8 K/D: 13 / 92

must admit that those hispanos gives *bit* too much advantage.

Must say that those other than hispano equivelant armed planes have been strafing tanks just for nothing, while tank drivers been having fun fixing their MG34 aim with those drones.

for gods sake, I hope this hispano gets downgraded or few other cannons gets upgraded to more equal levels.. (yea yea, i know, hispano was more powerful, but still it was 20mm like MG151/20 and others, and still not that much difference)

spora · « **Reply #38 on:** July 27, 2000, 05:43:00 PM »

Do the statistics available show _how_ a tank was killed?

I know I've been killed by F4U/Typhoon 20 mm guns in a Pzkw IV, but some pilots must get kills by bombs and rockets?

I do not even try to kill tanks by guns/cannons. It's a 500 kg bomb as close as possible or a salvo of rockets.

Pappy · « **Reply #39 on:** July 27, 2000, 05:46:00 PM »

The armor at the rear of a tank isn't null and void its just at a flatter angle and slightly thinner, in WWII our sherman tanks main battle gun didn't punch through the armor of the panzers except at very close range and from very close range at the rear in many cases.
Like it or not .50cal and 20mm both should have less of an effect, the depleted uranium rounds of the 35mm fired by the A10 today are hyper velocity not hardly inline with the old steel core armor piercer of the 1940's.
The 25mm modern bushmaster cannon mounted on many US vehicles also uses high performance rounds and won't punch through more than just a couple inches of armor in other words light armor.
I would guess the russian IL's droped a whole lotta bombs on those exposed panzers and went after the lighter vehicles with cannons blazzing although I'm sure stray rounds and open hatches did a few in a 75mm main battle tank round glances off with only partial effect but a 20mm round does the trick? catch that white rabbit the next time yer in the hole man its the only way you can prove yer case.

eskimo · « **Reply #40 on:** July 27, 2000, 05:59:00 PM »

C-47 K/D 5:85.... hmm ... 5 kills!

Some kills are certainly freebies, alot of them must be due to bombs. B-17, B-26, P-47, F4U-1D and the stang prolly got all kills with bombs. Also, if you ping a tank, and he then drives into the ack, or tips over, you get a kill.

The stats don't sort out much. They also don't tell you how often the A/C augers 1/2 second after being awarded the Panzer kill. (Been there, done that.)

eskimo

BigJim · « **Reply #41 on:** July 27, 2000, 06:50:00 PM »

Pappy you make a point but the real fact is our tanks were not firing at the TOP of a panzer which according to the stats I read is less than a 1/2 inch thick on top. In any case just the spauling inside from 20mm hits would shake the crew up some, and I think the hispano's would penatrate (I think the old .50 cal rounds would too). How thick do you think the boiler on a steam engine is??? and we have PLENTY of footage of those going up from .50 cal fire.

BigJim

Fishu · « **Reply #42 on:** July 27, 2000, 07:22:00 PM »

just whine, ignore

[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 08-01-2000).]

-ammo- · « **Reply #43 on:** July 27, 2000, 08:16:00 PM »

I dont know fishu at all, but I have derived from his posts--many are the number-- that he has an agenda to put forth. This agenda has nothing to with the truth (unless it is a VERY subjective truth). He is passionate about his Luftwaffe AC and their weapons, which is fine by me.

Fishu, I am sorry but you are wrong. Whatever you like to believe about the mauser cannon is wrong. It is nowhere in comparison to the Hispano cannon. It makes no difference to me either. I have nothing to prove. The hispano live round was a much bigger cartridge than the Mauser. the mauser fired at a low velocity in comparison to the hispano. This is not to say that the mauser was a weak weapon, it was great within its envelope, which is short range. Its trajectory would be much more arced than the hispano or the 50 cal browning machine gun.

I too reload my own mettalics and enjoy playing in ballistics. I reload more high powered small caliber rifle ammo than I do handgun ammo. Yes I have a pretty good grasp on ballistics, where you have just an unfounded opinion. You are quite entitled to that opinion, but please dont attemp to pass it off as fact without evidence.

Pappy · « **Reply #44 on:** July 27, 2000, 09:15:00 PM »

That footage of trains going up is also very cool I might add, the hatches would have been the thinnest armor but they look closer to an inch thick or so to me never the less hammering them from overhead might do them in I have never heard how effective the IL's guns were as opposed to them dropping bombs on the panzers I know they cratered the hell out of the eastern front though.