Author Topic: Are we itching for war or just really stupid?  (Read 1228 times)

Offline Naso

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Are we itching for war or just really stupid?
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2003, 03:29:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by WpnX
It's to cool a hot spot in the world in order to stabilize the region and the world for future generations. Yes, sometimes you have to fight and people (quite possibly myself included) may die in order to accomplish this, but you need to wake up and face reality. Peace comes at a cost - "Freedom isn't free"


"Stabilize the world for U.S. future generation", and "U.S. Freedom"

This is one of the reasons why some of the wannabe power nations (like France), are against this war.

Let them have a piece of the cake and they will give you support.

Sad, cynic, but true.

Dont foul yourself with "fight for freedom", "U.S. is in danger", it's just economic, and (how sad!!) 9-11, has been a good starting point to have all the U.S. people willing to sacrifice their lives to let the big oil company grab the fields in Iraq, put a US-friendly government (who care if will behave worst of Saddam on the citizens?), and enlarge the control of the world by the U.S.

It's a big problem for me?

No, I live in a US-puppet nation, whealthy, almost rich, I can play computer games, buy cars, and live a nice materialistic life.

If only that bitter sensation in my mouth while looking the third world people starve to death will disappears.

I have to adopt this beautiful mantra....

"who cares, who cares, who cares..........."

Offline Naso

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Are we itching for war or just really stupid?
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2003, 03:33:58 AM »
Good luck wpnx.

I posted this separate from the above post, because one thing is the big things that are over our head, another thing is the little people like you, me and those Iraqi soldiers, that pay the consequences.

Try to avoid "collateral damage", if you can.

Offline funkedup

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Are we itching for war or just really stupid?
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2003, 03:38:10 AM »
Quote
"Stabilize the world for U.S. future generation", and "U.S. Freedom"

This is one of the reasons why some of the wannabe power nations (like France), are against this war.

Let them have a piece of the cake and they will give you support.


"           COLONEL
     Whose
side are you on, son?

            JOKER
     Our side, sir.

           
COLONEL
     Don't you love your country?

            JOKER
     Yes,
sir.

            COLONEL
     Then how about getting with the program?
     
Why don't you jump on the team and come
     on in for the big win?

           
JOKER
     Yes, sir!

            COLONEL
     Son, all I've ever asked
of my marines is that
     they obey my orders as they would the word
     
of God. We are here to help the Vietnamese,
     because inside every
gook there is an
     American trying to get out. It's a hardball
     
world, son. We've gotta keep our heads until
     this peace craze blows
over.

            JOKER
     Aye-aye, sir.

Offline beet1e

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Are we itching for war or just really stupid?
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2003, 03:42:43 AM »
Good post, Sparks – as one would expect from a Brit. :D

I’m beginning to have mixed feelings about this forthcoming conflict. I want the outcome, but no-one likes a war. I DO believe there are some links between Saddam and al Qa’eda – for one thing it was widely reported that Saddam donated US$25,000 to each of the families of the al Qa’eda 911 suicide pilots. Chances are that he’s providing other funding, and why wouldn’t he? He must be pretty pissed off with the sanctions against him and wants to hurt the US in any way that he can after what happened in 1991.

The big mistake was not finishing the job in 1991. Pop Bush was forced to stop the Gulf war by UN mandate. The Bush family does not like the UN; in his biography, Pop Bush describes the UN as “another light that failed”.

People who say that Saddam “is not a threat to world peace” are forgetting that he is already in breach of what – 33 out of 37 UN resolutions? He kicked out the weapons inspectors in 1998 and has been playing cat and mouse with the UN/US ever since the Gulf War ended. Forget about oil, and forget about 911 – the US is justified in taking action because of the UN Resolution breach alone. We forget this because the war was a long time ago, and fell out of the news.

After 911, Dubya declared war on terror – not just al Qa’eda. And let’s not forget the scale of the atrocity committed against the world – which just happened to be in the US, but could have been another plane flying through one of the clock faces of Big Ben in London. Indeed, a cell was discovered trying to hijack a British plane on that day, but was thwarted because of closure of the airspace. Dubya always maintained that his declaration of war was not just against the Taliban, but against any other terror threats. Given that Saddam has provided funding to al Qa’eda, and has imported equipment needed for building nuclear weapons, he deserves what he’s about to get. Oh yes! Saddam bought nuclear centrifuges for refinement of plutonium to 70% purity. A nuke reactor needs fuel at only 3% purity, so when he says it was for reactors, we know he’s talking bollocks.

Let’s also not forget that deterrence works. Remember how the people of some Islamic states were dancing in the streets after 911? Remember how Pakistanis were naming their new born sons Osama to honour their new hero? Remember the riots when the US decided to act against the Taliban in Afghanistan? That all stopped when swift US military action in Afghanistan achieved in three weeks what the Russians had failed to do in ten years, and the Taliban was all but destroyed. There was no dancing in the streets of Islamabad that day – lol.

By attacking Saddam, the US will be enforcing existing UN resolutions after years of neglect during the Clinton presidency. Any funding to al Qa’eda or any other terrorist group will be cut off. Better a small war now, than a big war later and the chance of more and greater atrocities before we have that bigger war.

Well, that’s the long version, and it’s only my opinion. Here’s the short version of why we should topple Saddam: The guy’s a c**t.

Offline Dowding

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Are we itching for war or just really stupid?
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2003, 03:49:32 AM »
Quote
That all stopped when swift US military action in Afghanistan achieved in three weeks what the Russians had failed to do in ten years, and the Taliban was all but destroyed. There was no dancing in the streets of Islamabad that day – lol.


That's because the previous day, many of the wiser warlords had switched sides... again...

The Russian and US objectives were very different. One was the subjugation of an entire nation, the other was the toppling of a regime chiefly made up of non-Afghanis and patently simpler task.

Bin Laden is still alive. Al-Queda is still kicking. Afghanistan was far from decisive - it was a beginning.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Tumor

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Are we itching for war or just really stupid?
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2003, 04:12:35 AM »
When was the last time GWB used the Saddam - Osama link as justification for and invasion of Iraq? (never mind Abu Nidal).

Who thinks Saddam Hussein is going to dissarm (more importantly "not use") WMD against say... Iran or Isreal if we pack up and leave the region?

Who thinks a certain other goof who's initials are William Jefferson Clinton dealt with the situation in Iraq properly? (and please, don't even start with the GW41 shoulda argument... Truth is true, he "should have" however he did exactly what he said he would while the "other guy" had 8yrs to do something.

Just wondering.  I just don't see ~any~ of the current anti-war arguments as anything other than underlying anti-Bush statements.

Hey... you'll notice, I'm allot more pissed off at Slick-Willy and GW41 over this whole thing as I "could" have been stuck in this stinking desert 10 years ago when we had the momentum rather than now facing who know's what crap that madman has had time to set in place (how many of those undeclared weapons deliveries to the middle east actually got through eh? Yemen my ass!).

Rather than squeak about what is probably going to happen, how about someone come up with a better solution and post it here?  This beating a dead horse routine is getting old and we're all fairly comfy with who likes Bush and who doesn't, lets debate something worthwhile.  How "should" this thing be done?
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline SirLoin

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Are we itching for war or just really stupid?
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2003, 04:20:36 AM »
I trust Collin Powell...Now that he's jumped on the "must invade Iraq" bandwagon,I am convinced that it is all a big bluff...An attempt to topple Saddam from within by making invasion seem inevitable.

If it works,Bush is brilliant.

If he invades,he's a bastard.
**JOKER'S JOKERS**

Offline Sparks

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Are we itching for war or just really stupid?
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2003, 06:47:35 AM »
Cabby - glad you liked the map.  If you think it was not required just ask the next ten people you come across where Iraq is exactly and what countries border it - I bet they will say 2 - Kuwait and Israel. People are way more ignorant than anyone can imagine :( .

As for being anti-Bush - quite frankly I believe he is irrelevant.  He simply does not have the intelligence or stature to handle this situation alone.  It is not a case of not liking him or thinking he personally is driving this - I simply don't believe he is any more than a figure head.

Cabby - if you think oil isn't driving this along with the strategic location just look at these figures:-

Oil reserves as of Jan 2001 in BILLIONS of barrels:-

#1  Saudi Arabia                    261.7      US/UK protected
#3  United Arab Emirates        97.8      US/UK protected
#4  Kuwait                               96.5      US/UK protected

#?  USA                                    22.0
#?  UK                                        5.0

Now
#2  Iraq                                 112.5
#6  Iran                                   89.7

These 5 countries have over half , yes half, the WORLDS oil supply...... tell me Iran isn't next  :rolleyes:

I have never said this war isn't necessary - just lets be honest about what its about before we ask our family members to get killed.

Cabby you may like to joke about 'conspiracy theory' mentallity but IMHO you are being totally niave about the power locked up in that dessert. Imagine the world influence available to the countries who controlled the worlds last crude oil stocks

People tend to forget that these leaders we have are people just like us - not divine beings sent to guide us.  They are corruptable and manageable like anyone else.

WpnX - I wish you god speed and good luck and hope you come back safe.   I must admit to agreeing with you on one point only though - you are going to stabilise the region .....  to our advantage.

Most of the people I work with have contracted at some time or the other in Saudi - usually contract support to the Saudi mililtary.  The common point they all make is Saudi is more fundamental than any other Arab state - including Iraq.  However we continue to treat them as our friend because the Saudi Royal family is in the West's pocket.

If weapons of mass destruction was the real aim here then we would be talking to Iraq more and shipping out to the N Korean border.  If you want to see the long term risk to world peace look waaaay East.  We should be a lot more scared of a technologically advanced China and Korea than a half arsed regime in Iraq.  Hussein thinks about today and tomorrow - the chinese think about 50 years from now.


Sparks

Offline SaburoS

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Re: Are we itching for war or just really stupid?
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2003, 06:48:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 10Bears
Are we itching for war or just really stupid?
 


Probably both.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell