Author Topic: Joystick... Force Feedback or no... (Read 983 times)

maxtor · « **Reply #15 on:** January 28, 2003, 10:22:20 AM »

I use a SFS dual Strike Throttle which I converted to USB. If that will work I gotta figure anything will?

Suave · « **Reply #16 on:** January 28, 2003, 10:34:02 AM »

I used to have one of those, was very easy to program, no software, you just held the button down while you typed in the function you wanted it to do .

blackfalcon4 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 28, 2003, 11:00:27 AM »

Hello,

Use a MSFFB Pro (original) w/ch pro pedals USB, works fine and I like it. Been using it since 98 when I started flying in FA.

Like it so much got a spare from ebay for 50 bux and I dont think it was even used.

Have seen on this board guys w/the ffb 2 having problems but the original gives me none and I prefer the original because it has a shift button to give me 8 more buttons, while the 2 does not.

Suggest the pedals tho, better than twist stick rudder.

ccvi · « **Reply #18 on:** January 28, 2003, 04:20:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKWeav
FFB sticks are fine, until yoor plane receives any damage. Then the thing will shake like crazy while you're trying to rtb your crippled bird, requiring you to use thumb and finger tips to manlipulat the stick to prevent covering the eye which enables the ffb. A consideration.

You can turn that off (setup/joystick/forcefeedback IIRC).

Tumor · « **Reply #19 on:** January 28, 2003, 05:01:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SirLoin
HI WhiteCat!

I use nothing but MS FFB Pro...It is kinda funny but I won't use anything else....It's clunky but solid and very well built.....FFB gives you a feel on the stik for the "stall envelope" and adds immensly to emersion for me...Other people hate it.....If HOTAS ever came out with FFB I would switch.

Ditto

Tumor · « **Reply #20 on:** January 28, 2003, 05:04:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by WldThing
I had a logitech Force feedback stick and the damn thing needed to be recalibrated every time i rolled.. The stick would kick me out of autoclimb every time..

I didnt like it much so it went back to the store...

heheh...Ditto again

Whitecat6598 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 28, 2003, 08:57:16 PM »

Thank y'all kind people! All excellent points and well thought out responses!!

I hadn't even considered what it would be like trying to take my runstang home after being pinged, and the stick is shaking it's brains out. It sounds like a somewhat severe concern, as I tend to get shot a lot.

On the other hand I do like the idea of getting rid of the "mechanical" interface of my current stick. Having a stick that depends on electronics and digital stuff seems like a great thing, especially in setting up any differences between games.

Y'all haven't made this choice any easier, however, I have gotten all I could have wanted (and more) about the various considerations involved with an FFB stick. Thank you kind gents (and ladies, if there were any) for such interesting comments. I hope someday I can repay the kindness and help y'all have shown me.

Thanks again and Best Regards

WC

ebgb · « **Reply #22 on:** January 28, 2003, 09:26:48 PM »

Perhaps I'm not qualified to make an opinion but . . .
Sidewinders are not compatible with Via chipsets. MS lists
a patch to make it work - but it has problems with my Via
chips still.

I have insufficient data to provide an opinion on FF2 on intel or Nforce2.

But . . . I can say the effects in AH are not particularly well modelled. For instance, you get rumble while rolling down the runway, but no bounce when your gear hit on touchdown. In some vehicles you get weapons effects on Mg's, but not on cannon. Stall effects turn on and off at odd times - like when
you're on autoclimb at ideal climb rate ???
AH also provides no adjustment for centering force, necessary IMO. Maybe it's just my rig? I'm finding it's a combination of things.

So . . . I'm flying my FF2 with effects off - and it is one terrific stick. I can land shots 600yards out routinely (try that with a Logitech stick). If it were'nt for this one fact - my stick would go back to the store.

Still . . . when I do turn effects on - I like it. Eye candy - hand candy? Can I say that? My B26 took 30 or 40 rounds the other night and I swear to you I started HoWlinG when the stick started
hammering away. I have never had so much fun spiraling down to earth.

Maybe . . . Some day I'll get the centering forces working as I like at the same time as when effects are enabled. Then I'll be one happy camper.

g

Whitecat6598 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 28, 2003, 10:10:58 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ebgb
Perhaps I'm not qualified to make an opinion but . . . Sidewinders are not compatible with Via chipsets. MS lists
a patch to make it work - but it has problems with my Via chips still.

Yessir, I have seen that opinion, and have also seen where Bill Gate$ has provided a solution...

Not a problem, as, if you have a MS Sidewinder FFB, you are qualified to make an opinion

... I've rebuilt my peecee (it was an original Gateway 2000...), thusly knowing to avoid VIA chips for reasons of my own, this is not a problem for me... and btw, IMHO GW sux the proverbial burro schlongs.

Quote

Originally posted by ebgb
But . . . I can say the effects in AH are not particularly well modelled. Stall effects turn on and off at odd times - like when you're on autoclimb at ideal climb rate ???

Hmmm.... at the risk of being called some kind of smart alek (or is that smart alec?) here... it would seem that at either Vx or Vy (best distance or best height) climb rates ["while in 'autoclimb'"] there would be no reason to stall... Unless you like to play with your stick while in autoclimb.

I know it's a trivial point, and kind of kidding around here, but the honest truth is, is that I wanted to type a smilie at this time.

Quote

Originally posted by ebgb
So . . . I'm flying my FF2 with effects off - and it is one terrific stick. I can land shots 600 yards out routinely....

Now, I am most definitely certain and without a doubt, it's not the stick that sinks the eight ball in a 100K$ eight ball tournament, it's the person behind the stick that gets to spend the 100K$... however, I'd think that if anything were to convince me to spend the hunnert bux, it would be the removal of certain "nose bounce" experiences.

Not sure that I can tell you how many times that even with my excellent MS Sidewinder Pro, I have experienced "just enough" nose hunting to ruin some of my better times when the 'approach-to-shooting' was destroyed due to the mechanical nature of my present stick...

Thanks!

WC

715 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 28, 2003, 10:24:46 PM »

I would agree with others that have said the effects are "cool" but the precision leaves something to be desired. Plus the wild gryrations when the plane is damaged are both annoying probably not realistic. As far as I can tell the MS SW FF2 has a relatively big center dead zone that can't be programmed out. That yellow box in the Sidewinder control software that LOOKS like a deadzone control is NOT directly related to deadzone. Don't mess with it- it will totally mess up your scaling near the centerpoint.

I find the twisty stick (for rudder control) to be extremely annoying. But you can add CH Pro USB Pedals and it works fine (the twisty stick then does nothing).

Whitecat6598 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 28, 2003, 11:40:22 PM »

715....

Don't I remember you from someplace?

Actually, I personally prefer the twisty stick movement. It's kind of like an FFB stick... either you love it, or you don't.

When I first started flying AH, and having a private license, I wished for rudder pedals... but then (for myself) realized that a twisty stick gave better control while in "attack mode".

Also... you mention the "precision" of digital sticks... I am to understand that whilst buffing (presumably from a 17) that FFB sticks are less than equal to the task.

Your comments about the "centering" of the stick are also quite interesting... all things being equal, I "should" be able to let go of the stick (of any kind, FFB or not) while in some reasonably level attitude, and have my chosen craft (eventually) regain level flight... not including baddies on my butt...

I remember such "centering" difficulties on the various "mousesticks" that were popular some years ago... Is it that current digital FFB sticks (either turned 'on' or 'off') have not solved this probem? Just asking...

WC

flecha · « **Reply #26 on:** January 29, 2003, 05:47:00 AM »

Well. I got a CH force fx joystick wich I use constantly in AH and I love it.

It sure took some tweaking before it fit ok with me. (basically I removed the centering springs and covered the sensor in the handle so the force effects are on all the time regardless if my is on it or not)

On the up side I love the trim effects. They add to your inmersion and SA telling you the energy state of the plane. You dont look too much your speed indication because you are feeling it thru your hands.

On the down side this joystick uses the serial port for communicating and its very inneficient. This leads to significant frame rate drops. I cure them disablin all effects but the above mentioned trim effect.

The stall/buffet effects are great too and really aid your flying
helping you fly closer to the edges of the envelope consistently.

Now the rest of the effects are more on the candy side (the shaking when firing your guns really makes it harder to score hits)
So I decided to go without them and get the benefit of better frame rates.

The reports of other users lack of accuracy only partially true. In my case is now the oppositte. I get better accuracy now that i got my settings right.

So to summarize. the force Fx can really add to the game experience altough requires some fiddling to get it right.

Just my opinion

flecha

715 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 29, 2003, 11:50:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Whitecat6598
715....

Don't I remember you from someplace?

Air Warrior... I guess you were 6598?

Quote

Also... you mention the "precision" of digital sticks... I am to understand that whilst buffing (presumably from a 17) that FFB sticks are less than equal to the task.

I just find mine has a measurable deadzone: you move the stick a bit but the plane (or gun) doesn't respond until you move it further. The "deadzone" control in the Sidewinder control software just makes things much worse if you set the yellow box to minimum. It's not really a deadzone, its some kind of non-linear scaling near zero. Then again, maybe I didn't fiddle with the settings enough.

Quote

Your comments about the "centering" of the stick are also quite interesting... all things being equal, I "should" be able to let go of the stick (of any kind, FFB or not) while in some reasonably level attitude, and have my chosen craft (eventually) regain level flight... not including baddies on my butt...
WC

The stick has an optical sensor that detects your hand. If you let go of the stick it goes limp- no centering force at all. You have to make sure you were centered before doing that. And if your cat rubs against the stick in that mode, well, you auger.