Author Topic: Early War Plane Set Deficiencies  (Read 1706 times)

Offline MOSQ

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Early War Plane Set Deficiencies
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2003, 11:23:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kevin14
But were the P-39 and 63 really that good? Why add airplanes that no one will fly because they're not that good?  We could use a Ki-84 (and the Italian G.55 or R.2005) that people would actually fly.


The P-39 was not a very good plane for the U.S. It was outturned in the Pacific by the zero, and NACA's decision to leave off the supercharger meant it was lousy at high altitude performance in the european bomber escort or interceptor role.

But the Soviet Union liked it because it was a great tactical ground attack fighter with it's 37mm canon. They also did very well with it in low alt dogfights.  For an interesting discussion of the P-39 from the SAF point of view, read

http://airforce.users.ru/lend-lease/english/articles/golodnikov/part3.htm

Here's a quote:
"A. S. Nikilay Gerasimovich, could the Cobra really contend with the Bf-109G and FW-190 in aerial combat?

N. G. Yes. The Cobra, especially the Q-5, took second place to no one, and even surpassed all the German fighters.

I flew more than 100 combat sorties in the Cobra, of these 30 in reconnaissance, and fought 17 air combats. The Cobra was not inferior in speed, in acceleration, nor in vertical or horizontal maneuverability. It was a very balanced fighter.

A. S. This is strange. In the words of one American pilot, the Cobra was an airplane “suitable for large, low, and slow circles”. To go further, if we judge by references, then the maximum speed of the Cobra fell below that of the Bf-109F, not to mention the later German fighters. The Allies removed it from their inventories because it could not fight with the “Messer” and the “Fokker”. Neither the British nor the Americans kept it as a fighter airplane.

N. G. Well, I don’t know. It certainly did well for us. Pokryshkin fought in it; doesn’t that say something? [Aleksandr Pokryshkin was the number 2 Soviet ace at the end of the war and flew a P-39 from late 1942 to the war’s end – J.G.]

It seems that everything depends on what you wanted out of it. Either you flew it in such a manner as to shoot down Messers and Fokkers, or you flew it in a way that guaranteed 120 hours of engine life."

There are other highly respected pilots who have said the P-39 was an excellent fighter, such as Chuck Yeager. And he is one who definately has strong opinions about planes.


The P-63 Kingcobra was an excellent performer. It had 1800 HP, laminar flow wings, and was considered to be on par with the P-51.

Astronaut Frank Borman owns one. Do you think he'd buy a poor performer? See hyperlink below

Now to your question about why add planes that no one would fly.

1) The P-39 is an absolute must have for the historical scenarios. It and the P-40 carried the flag for the USAAF for the first two years of the war.

If AHII has a time cycle to it, so that the war progresses over a time period, the P-39 will again be a must have for 1941 - 42.

In the MA it will be as much of a hanger queen as the P-40 is, but it will surely get flown. It may possibly find a niche in the MA as a low altitude ground attack fighter.

2) The P-63 will be able to fly and fight with any of the late war planes. It would help fill the lack of Soviet Air force planeset.


Frank Borman's P-63 Kingcobra

[Aleksandr Pokryshkin was the number 2 Soviet ace at the end of the war and flew a P-39 from late 1942 to the war’s end – J.G.]
« Last Edit: February 01, 2003, 11:31:18 PM by MOSQ »

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2003, 12:56:28 AM »
Kapish? KAPISH?! What's with all the "Soprano lingo" stuff from everyone lately? I heard a hillbilly use "kuh-peeeesh" the other day. M-A! KAPISH! POP-EWE-LARRY-TEE!

 Hehe .... miss that old Korean arena in AW. Never was as popular as the other arenas. Especially when it went full realism and the RR whiners cried about the blackouts. ;)

 I know J_A_B .... thanks for your support in spite of your preference. I hope HT gives you your "banned because of bad taste" undescores back.

 I never use em, myself but ....

Quote
Originally posted by J_A_B
 Kapish?

J_A_B

Offline Puke

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« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2003, 12:54:58 PM »
JAB, I'm glad you are enjoying the discussion.  :D   Okay, I give you that I do not have your experience in the online world.  I have barely any time in Air Warrior and when I was there, all I remember was a Korean War arena which wasn't utilized but I don't remember a late-war arena in competition with an early-war arena...I just remember a Main Arena which rotated Europe to Pacific and back again including the aircraft from all time-frames for that theater.  As far as counting the Korean War arena, that shouldn't fall as proof because Air Warrior was marketed as a WW2 flight simulation and thus that is what your player base will prefer.  If you create a Korean War online simulation and then add a WW2-aircraft arena to it, I bet it won't do as well.  The same thing with Aces High really, most people here are WW2 fans and could care less about modern jets.  I saw this very well when on the last convention's field trip to some airbase when the museum director stopped at the F-4 Phantom.  Now, I am a jet fanatic, especially Vietnam, and I would've loved talking the guy's ear off but I could hear all the moans in the background and everyone wanted to get to that Messerschmit (sp?) in the background.  Had I gone with a Falcon 4 group, they would've been moaning had I wanted to chat a long time about a Wildcat or something.  So comparing arenas beyond the WW2 time-frame is out in my opinion.  As to the difference between 1941/41 and 1944/45, I have not seen (personally, have not seen with my own eyes) a preference either way.  The point I tried to make is that you cannot use the MA as a barometer of preference because people there will be selecting that aircrat that gives them the best hope of success.  I know most people did not grow up wishing they had a game centered on the LA-7 or N1K2, but they are very highly used in the MA which is indicative of this.  Now what I did use as an indicator to compare early-war vs late-war are the Special Events and the CT here at Aces High.  And based on my unscientific opinion (I have no hard numbers), the participation doesn't seem to be affected by the actual time-frame.  In fact, the Battle Of Midway 4-frame event did VERY well though did slack off after the USA won in frame-2.  So that's basically it in a nutshell.  But now I have learned you have much experience in this area with many flight simulations and I guess I will have to yield to your experience that the typical WW2 fan who flies online prefers late-war aircraft because they get more kills in them per time vs the early-war aircraft.  Aces High started out as a late-war arena and that will always be its core and defining property.  So if people do not like that later aircraft, can I have my F8U Crusader to fly around in the MA with?   Please??

;)

Offline J_A_B

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« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2003, 09:06:33 PM »
"can I have my F8U Crusader to fly around in the MA with? Please?? "

Before Kesmai got absorbed into EA (and its subsequent demise), they were working on a "AirWarrior: VietNam" game.....I think it would have been a blast  :)

J_A_B

Offline Griego

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« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2003, 11:06:04 PM »
I used to play Dawn of Ace's WWI planes. talk about slow and slow climbing.  I had a great time flying and dogfighting in those WWI planes.    When you have same era plane set against same era plane set it all relative.  They all are slow climbers and and slow planes but what fun it can be. It's only when you got disparity in the plane set then the early warbirds become less fun. Nobody like to die that much.  I used Dawn of Ace's as an example of a slow plane set.

 Great fun, still fly it offline when I get bored of 1945 in MA AH.

  HMMM just realized I'm a Senior Member :D
« Last Edit: February 02, 2003, 11:10:32 PM by Griego »

Offline frank3

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« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2003, 04:38:41 AM »
Nice pics BUG_EAF322, that upper one is a Fokker T-V bomber and the lower is the Fokker D-XXI I tought

have you got on of the 8A3-N to?