How can this be?

[mrsid2]

He outzoomed my 262. That's all I have to say.

[WldThing]

Ive had a spit outdive my 262 in the MA... But thats after i tried scissoring

[AKIron]

It's not hard to overcome Spit envy, just come to the dark side.

[hazed-]

from th\at situation id have first allowed the spit to dive on me at the beginning of the engagement (when he had alt adv)

Then id try to evade him until the fight got slow and the spit commits to a dogfight (ie he slows down until he is at the same speed as your 190a5)

Then I would have dived out and used the superior acceleration and roll to gain a lead.Once that lead is a good 1k or so id just level and extend. The spit cannot accelerate and then sustain prolonged flight at high speed. Sure it can hold E but eventually that E is lost and it becomes a top speed contest.

From what you describe i think you lost most of your speed in the pull out and possibly in violent rolls whilst under heavy G. All these really slow the 190. A good spit pilot can monitor your moves and adjust accordingly if he has a nicely built up energy state to play with. The spit is slow in level flight only if you make him slow first and make him use his engine to accelerate up to his speed and not a stored energy from a dive.

[davidpt40]

The spitfire has an amazing wing design.  I think it has an 11% aspect ratio (maybe thats the wrong term) which allows the Spit to dive extremely fast.  In fact, the crappy old Spitfire could reach a higher dive speed than the superb P51 Mustang.  So, my hypothesis is this-  The Spitfire was able to gain on you by diving from a higher altitude, reaching an extremely fast dive speed, then before friction slowed his aircraft, he was able to catch you.

[slimm50]

Dang, this is fascinating stuff.

[JB42]

Im not asking if it could happen ( it did, i died because it happened) and not really asking how it happened ie: e retention, acceleration.... What i'm asking is should it have happened?

I understand how he got the speed to catch me. My question is should his plane have had the ability to do what it did? A Boeing 747 can out dive a Fw190, but can it pull out? No. We were traveling in excess of 500 mph and no way should a spit be able to pull out much less roll with a 190. The modelling is wrong.

[X2Lee]

Originally posted by JB42
Im not asking if it could happen ( it did, i died because it happened) and not really asking how it happened ie: e retention, acceleration.... What i'm asking is should it have happened?

I understand how he got the speed to catch me. My question is should his plane have had the ability to do what it did? A Boeing 747 can out dive a Fw190, but can it pull out? No. We were traveling in excess of 500 mph and no way should a spit be able to pull out much less roll with a 190. The modelling is wrong.

After your dive you only rolled 2 times then u hit auto and let him win?
2 rolls aint hard to follow even almost compressed
U should have at least kept scissoring for the overshoot,
Fws get slow lots quicker than  spits...

[Paxil]

I have been caught by this a few times before and scratched my head. If you are flying straight and level, and a plane is above you, it can catch you going the same speed if it is flying to a spot in front of you. Nothin uber about it. He's cutting the corner so to speak.

Of course...I have also seen planes catch me after already hitting the deck. That is a bit harder to explain.

I think auto-level might be a bit of a speed break too... elevator goes up, then when you nose goes above horizon, back down... then up etc... until you level out. Happens quickly, but there could be a bit of extra drag. Maybe not.

[TWOLF]

Well,  if the guy dosn't have supper SA, and you have a decent amount of alt as you did here.  Try this next time.  Go into a Hard rolling spin, and roll into his turn, go 90 degrees roll out flat on the deck....he should spend the next 20 seconds looking for you, and by then your a vapor trial.  Works for me 9 times of ten.  I would do a visual, but I am at work....can't upload from here.  Picture a vertical Auger, that's your manuver.  Nothing out rolls the FW, as your getting fuzzy from the G's execute your hard roll to horizontal flight.  He will be blackedout and will not be able to follow....If you calculated your roll out correctly you will be traveling in the oppisite direction at 500+ while he spends the next 20 seconds losing E looking for you.  By then your a memory.

[wetrat]

I'm assuming this was a spit9, and the A5 isn't a whole hell of alot faster than a spit9... on top of that, nothing, save for a spitIX, outdives a spit9 from high alt. And for your rolls... we'd have to see a demo to make any judgement on that.

[Hades55]

Originally posted by popeye
"I hit auto-level and go into a black out"

So....yer looking for more realism in the flight model?

Well, some german bombers HAD auto
level mechanism to take them out of the
dive.  JU-87, JU-88.

Now if you have it @ all aircrafts here,
thats another story.
But The Mechanism Was Exist.

[cpxxx]

I remember reading an article by a Spitfire pilot, admittedly flying a post war recce late model spit where he got himself into a terminal dive which he was convinced put him supersonic, however unlikely that is. Nevertheless he went very fast indeed, ludicrous speed even and recovered,  eventually. So spits can dive fast in real life.

On the other hand in the game it does seem to be a flight model glitch which I for one will now exploit. Let's go!!!!!!

[SpinDoc1]

I remember reading an article by a Spitfire pilot

and

So spits can dive fast in real life.

Not a good idea to believe everything you read... one source doesn't make it true.

[Karnak]

JB42,

The answer to your stated question is "yes", Spitfires could pull out at those speeds.  The Spitfire, P-51 and Fw190 are all examples of WWII fighters that did not suffer early compression.  The P-47, P-38, Bf109 and A6M are examples of WWII fighters that did compress early.


Remember, the Spitfire gets heavy aerilons at high speed, but the Spitfire's elevators do not get heavy.  The elevator authority remains good and relatively light to the touch.