Why Germany is not supporting the US policy on Iraq.

[Dowding]

Tap-dance? The accusation of a man out of options, generally.

Although I have been deceiving you and I feel I have to come clean. I was going to claim it was a social experiment you see, but that's been done before.

Being critical of an administration is not being hateful of the country that administration governs. The adminstration is transitory, and never outlasts the country. Moreover, the adminstration does not represent the views of all citizens, and therefore those not in unanimity of opinion with the government are also open to the accusation of hating their own country, by extension of argument. That is a slippery slope to fascism. I believe it is a complete fallacy.

[Toad]

Merely the observation of a man that has seen many tapdancers. Some better and some worse than you.

[Thud]

Originally posted by Habu
I am not an American. I do not live in America. I just see so much nonsense written about America right now I felt the desire to make these posts. I really do not think that most people have any idea what is going on with the UN and the US and Iraq.

Regarding my post. Yes It is true that the contributions from the US private organizations and NGO's will be much higher than those from Norway both in total dollar terms and in terms of % of GDP. The reason is that Norway is a very heavily taxed socialist country and people in those countries tend to think "My government takes care of my social causes for me".

In the US people are more generous personally and do not expect the government to eliminate hunger in Africa so will support one of the many church or national charities that work in that area.

How much did you donate to charity last income tax statement. I bet I gave more and I am not even that generous a donor.

I'm sure you believe firmly in the puddle of assumptions, guesses, personal opinions and subjective observations you just poured down on us. Some naive people who are not as completely familiar with the exact thinking and spending patterns of both Norwegians and US citizens as yourself might give you more credibility if you present a few hard facts instead...

[Habu]

Originally posted by Thud
I'm sure you believe firmly in the puddle of assumptions, guesses, personal opinions and subjective observations you just poured down on us. Some naive people who are not as completely familiar with the exact thinking and spending patterns of both Norwegians and US citizens as yourself might give you more credibility if you present a few hard facts instead...

Sorry Thud. I did not know I was writing another thesis. I will try to use footnotes from now on.

Nonetheless, it is interesting to note for example, per latest estimates, Americans privately give at least $34 billion overseas -- more than three times U.S. official foreign aid of $10 billion:

International giving by U.S. foundations totals $1.5 billion per year

Charitable giving by U.S. businesses now comes to at least $2.8 billion annually

American NGOs gave over $6.6 billion in grants, goods and volunteers.

Religious overseas ministries contribute $3.4 billion, including health care, literacy training, relief and development.

$1.3 billion by U.S. colleges are given in scholarships to foreign students

Personal remittances from the U.S. to developing countries came to $18 billion in 2000

Source: Dr. Carol Aderman, Aid and Comfort, Tech Central Station, 21 August 2002. (Aderman admits that there are no complete figures for international private giving. Hence these numbers may be taken in caution, but even with caution, these are high numbers.)

[straffo]

I clearly don't see why you are arguing here ?


Norvege is admirable because of the effort

USA is admirable because of the quantity

So what the problem ?
Why should we expect USA to do the same effort ?
Because it will provide more money for those in the need ? perhaps ...



But if you look closely at the chart posted you will see a little country providing a little effort and a little quantity ...
Have you any idea of the real amount of money there is in Luxembourg ? (just a hint : it's a multiple of Fort Knox)

[Habu]

Thud said that my argument that when you consider US aid you have to consider the enormous amount of private aid that US citizens contribute was just unsubstantiated opinion, implying that it was not true.

Of course when you see the real figures the amount of aid from private sources is staggering.

The figure, according to that report, is over 3 times what the US government gives.

It also breaks down the private aid to show most is being used for humanitarian purposes.

Norway is a socialist state that is heavily taxed and there is no way per capita private aid from Norway is even close to the US level because people do not have the same amount of disposible income. I also know Norway very well having worked overseas in the oil business and I have many friends from there. The one thing they all tell me is that when you make lots of money it is time to leave Norway, because the government takes it all.

Therefore all this BS about how cheap the US is and how great Norway is false because it is based on the false assumption that only governments give aid (and not the private sectors of the economy).

Most government aid is anything but. If you want to judge aid by the humanitarian impact, then private aid gives a much greater bang for the dollar than government aid. But that is a totally different subject.

[mietla]

Originally posted by Toad
than money.

Typical for the libs, the result does not matter, only the effort does.

[Thud]

Originally posted by Habu
Thud said that my argument that when you consider US aid you have to consider the enormous amount of private aid that US citizens contribute was just unsubstantiated opinion, implying that it was not true.

From several other posts by which you enriched the boards here I already figured out that you never mastered the art of reading or listening properly before reacting to someone. I'll give it a try though, I litterally stated that if you count in the private aid from the US you should do the same with the private aid from Norway.

But of course with just a vague understanding of what I wrote you retorted brilliantly by stating that you definately gave more to charity than I did last fy...

[Monk]

hmmm.....this is a boring one.

[Habu]

Originally posted by Thud
From several other posts by which you enriched the boards here I already figured out that you never mastered the art of reading or listening properly before reacting to someone. I'll give it a try though, I litterally stated that if you count in the private aid from the US you should do the same with the private aid from Norway.

But of course with just a vague understanding of what I wrote you retorted brilliantly by stating that you definately gave more to charity than I did last fy...

And I said Norway is a socialist state and therefore.........

Ahhh forget it you do not seem to be able to grasp the simple fact that if you add the public aid and the governement aid the US gave it totals to more than ever other country on that graph combined.