Author Topic: Why it is not possible to have a padlock.  (Read 1557 times)

Offline miko2d

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« on: July 26, 2000, 09:41:00 AM »
 Lady and Gentleman,
 Padlock is the topic that is raised from time to time by people who missed the previous discussions. I just wante to refresh it for those people and maybe get some ideas.

 Some argue that the padlock feature simulates smooth tracking of the target by a pilot. If the pilot glances at his instrunents or checks his 6 momentarily, he does not usually loose the target. Padlock simulates it all beautifully.

 Other's argue that the padlock gives people completely unrealistic SA advantage, since it can trach the target while it is out of sight - covered by an aircraft for example. Or when a pilot looks in another direction for a long time and the target is not even close to where it was seen last - the padlock still keeps track of it. That is completely unacceptable in a HiFi sim like AH or WB.

 So what, say the padlock proponents, modify it to account for those features. Well, as a programmer I could tell you that it is an extremely difficult task, if at all possible.
 Here are some difficulties, as an example:

1. When you glance away from a target, what time should pass before the padlock looses it? There will never be concensus on this and the actual number is variable in real life. If a plane crosses your wing while slowly overtaking you and flying straight, you will have no trouble reaquiring it when it emerges because you will predict it's path and watch for it at the point where it should emerge - the padlock is locked on that point. If at any point you decide to roll and make it visible, you should already be looking in the proper direction.

 If the same plane is not flying straight before being covered by a piece of your plane, you would not even expect to reaquire it and start looking elsewhere immediately.

2. You could lose visibility of a plane over terrain and over or behind the clouds. The distance of that varies based on the shape of the plane, the color scheme of a plane, it's orientation towards you, the colouring of that particular piece of a terrain it is flying over, any kind of smoke/dust present, sun/water glare and a few other factors.
 The padlock would have to simulate human visual mechanism to reproduce that. Guess what - we are not even close to reliable speech recongition systems, let alone visual recongition systems nearing the human vision in extreme conditions.
 If anyone came up with that kind of software, it would be first used in self-flying planes and self-driving cars, not in a game. Of course you would need a supercomputer for that now.

3. We have different receptors in our eye - some are located in the center and react to detail, others are located in the periphery and react to the motion. You see the pane on the screen if you look at it, but you loose it from sight if you glance away and it is not moving much relative to the rest of a picure. That should also be similated.

 So we would have to wait a few years/decades for a realistic padlock. Once it is possible, I am sure the good folks of HTC would consider it.

miko--

Offline hitech

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2000, 09:47:00 AM »
Moot point.

Padlock was written last week. And it dosn't offer any advantage other than not having to change views manualy.


HiTech

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2000, 09:54:00 AM »
Heheheheheeheh  

Offline Westy

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2000, 10:02:00 AM »

 (edited as I thought HiTech was kidding and I was pulling legs.)

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 07-26-2000).]

Offline JimBear

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2000, 10:08:00 AM »
:::Leg being pulled?:::


Offline miko2d

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2000, 10:34:00 AM »
 Padlock just changing the view without actually tracking the target in the center of the screen?

 It's so simple, how come nobody thought of that! It sounds like it is going to simulate just the movement of a head, but not the human vision. Great news, Hitech, thanks!

 It will take some getting used to for the people accustomed to the old padlocks, because a plane will appear in another place of the screen once the view changes.

 miko--

P.S. When do we get it?
 

Offline miko2d

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2000, 10:38:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Westy:

 It is possible to have a padlock. In Fighter Ace. Folks who want it can use it along with the rest of the folks there who prefer the low effort and no learning curve way.
 -Westy
(padlock simulates NOTHING. Nothing at all)

 Westy,
 How does FA padlock addresses the the issues I brought in my post? WB/AH pilots are proud of their SA skills. How does FA padlock avoids giving people an unfair advantage of seeing something that should be invisible?

miko--


Offline Nash

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2000, 11:22:00 AM »
"How does FA padlock avoids giving people an unfair advantage of seeing something that should be invisible?"

If yer plane is blocking the view of the padlocked plane... you won't be able to se it.

Offline miko2d

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2000, 12:05:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Nash:
"How does FA padlock avoids giving people an unfair advantage of seeing something that should be invisible?"

If yer plane is blocking the view of the padlocked plane... you won't be able to se it.

Nash,
 I am not being contrarian here, I really want to know if anyone came up with a better padlock then the few ones I saw. Could you give some details.

 In which way won't I be able to see the target? Will I lose a lock and snap back to the front view and have to reaquire the lock if the target disappears from my view for a fraction of a second behind a canopy strut?

 Or will I "not see it" while looking directly where it is - at the center of my screen, even hidden behind my aicraft or clouds or mountains or masked by a terrain for prolonged periods of time while changing directions?

 The first option is not really usable. The second one is completely unrealistic - even Superman needed to know where to look with his X-ray vision.

 Also, how do you aquire the padlock in FA? By looking at a plane and clicking on it or by hitting "lock nearest plane" twice a second until something comes up? That would complelely prevent any kind of a surprise.
 Even our mile-wide neon icons could be seen only if you are looking in their general direction and people keep complaining about them.

 I would appreciate if anyone could enlighten me.

miko--

[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 07-26-2000).]

Offline Nash

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2000, 12:14:00 PM »
First of all, I have no idea how it's gonna be implemented here.

IF, as some people have surmised, that this 'padlock' is more akin to a view switcher, then heres how I'm *guessing* it would work:

You've got a plane in your front view. You select (dunno how) it for padlock. if that plane crosses to your 2 o'clock, then the view will switch (pan, whatever) to the 45' horizontal view. As it crosses to your 3 o'clock, the view will switch to your 90' horizontal view. It doesn't mean it will *center* that plane, it just means it will change it to the best view for keeping rack of him. Now if this plane dives *under* you, perhaps the view will change to the look down mode... all that you will see is yer seat... and that plane could be *anywhere* below ya in that view.

Now - this is complete BS speculation on my part based on whats been mentioned. Prolly talkin' out me arse. You'll need further clariication from the fine folks at HTC to really know how this is gonna work.

Offline Nash

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2000, 12:16:00 PM »
Heh, I went and checked out how I got that idea... and it was from YOUR post miko2d. Heh, I'm afraid it's the blind leading the blind here  

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2000, 12:17:00 PM »
All I can say is: Hitech! You da man!

Offline MrLars

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2000, 12:21:00 PM »
Padlock is just a crutch...unless implemented with the proper restrictions it will give an unfair advantage to it's users...I would rather have AH stick with the view system already in place, which is the best of any sim presently IMO. BTW...the padlock in FA2 is a joke...tracking planes that start outside of your field of view is just plane wrong and very unrealistic.

MrLars

Offline Skuzzy

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2000, 12:30:00 PM »
Uhmmmm, all I gotta say is;

Trust Hitech, the padlock will be done realistically and without giving up the current view system.


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Offline Nash

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2000, 12:37:00 PM »
It occurs to me that padlocking involves *selecting* a plane. In this case nme. It doesn't seem to be too much of a stretch to be able to select a friendly plane for a six call. I'd love to see that here.

Internal dialogue:
"Call his 6? Nah, better just to clear his tail. But what if he doesn't see it? What if he does and I waste valuable manuever time typing to him. Oops... he's dead".