Author Topic: Another ditching thread  (Read 233 times)

Offline StSanta

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Another ditching thread
« on: June 12, 2000, 04:26:00 AM »
Time to present our cases on the missing wing/wingtip/high speed ditch cases. Here's my views.

High speed ditching: a 10 000 pound aircraft loaded with inflammable fuel hitting the ground even at a gentle angle doing more than 250 mph has a very high chance of doing a FlameBall(tm) imitation in real life. Not much to discuss there - the historical evidence is quite overwhelming. I can probably dig something up should it be necessary but I have some hope in people understanding some rather elementary rules of physics.

Ditching with missing wingtip/wing The argument here goes along the lines of "representative damage" - i.e that at the moment, AH shows a missing wingtip but the actual damage might not be what is displayed. I have two objections to this; one is more of a question, and another a fact. First one is; how has HTC modelled the compartments? Are they gradually modelled, i.e performance sinks as % goes down, or are they either destroyed or not destoyed. The way the FM is today, I am led to believe it is more of a bvinary thing - I get performance problems when I lose an elevator, not when I damage them. Nor do I get 35% peformance loss when it is just shot up a bit.

Second, some planes can fly without a wingtip or wing, others cannot. I dare anyone to land a 109 who has lost a wingtip. This in itself suggests that it is not a representative damage problemm, but inherently linked to compartment damage. If it was a representative damage thingy, 109G10's should be able to fly without a wingtip just as well as a 190A8 (potentially) does it, given the damage is relatively the same.

It's a GAME, it's supposed to be FUN Now this argument I feel is totally out of place in a simulator which strives to meet reality all while trying to keep the sim fun. First of all, it is so much out of proportion that it is akin to asking for powerups, because "it is a game, it is blah blah".

Yeh, sure is fun to ditch at 300mph with a missing wing. Sure would be fun to have quad damage too. Sure is fun to fight without a missing wing too, but I would also like health powerups for my injured pilot.

This thing has just started to annoy me a bit. I am not however sufficiently annoyed to lose my objectivity or lose sight of the fact that my opinion is that something is wrong, and they're based on what I feel is reasonable arguments.

So those who advocate the ditching/wingless flying or people who find flaws in my arguments, please point them out so we can have a *real* discussion about this.




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StSanta
II/JG2

Offline Saintaw

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Another ditching thread
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2000, 04:49:00 AM »
Santa, follow the following instructions to the letter :

-Get foot off mouth
-go to bottom of page
-see the little roler ? select News& announcement
-Read Pyro's ost on "more 1.3 News"
-...
-"High speed ditching fixed"
-Put foot back in mouth
-FLY A PONY !

Saw
Saw
Dirty, nasty furriner.

Offline StSanta

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Another ditching thread
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2000, 06:48:00 AM »
Heheheh, saw, that only answers part of my objections  .

I can still whine about the wingtip/missing wing bit  



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StSanta
II/JG2

Offline Saintaw

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Another ditching thread
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2000, 06:58:00 AM »
Well, IMO , the missing wingtip shows Damage to the wingtip, but I don't think that the Wingtip is actually missing (Gotta check that with HT, but I think I remember seeing that somewhere here...).

My answer to the 109 not being able to land with a wingtip off, is.......Did U see the size of the wing of the 109 compared to an other plane   ?

Now, stop whining, and get your Football team some training will ya ! What a shame....
Saw
Dirty, nasty furriner.

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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Another ditching thread
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2000, 07:42:00 AM »
For the high speed ditching Santa, I'm sure we can both find examples of people (not planes) who survived high speed ditchs, and others who died while ditching at slow speed.

So it can be an endless discution. Now I still believe that a belly landing (wich is nothing else than a ditch) on flat terrain with a gentle ROD will make you live. (The aircraft is wasted anyway by internal structural weackness).

"flying with part of a wing missing as been proven dangerous for your health, don't try this at home."
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Olivier "Frenchy" Raunier
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[This message has been edited by SFRT - Frenchy (edited 06-12-2000).]
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
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Offline StSanta

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Another ditching thread
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2000, 09:39:00 AM »
Frenchy, while  you probably can find exceptions, i am talking about the rule here.

It is pretty hard to argue against the laws of physics. 10 000 lb aircraft, lots of highly flammable fuel and 300mph into the ground make likelihood for FlameBall(tm) VERY high compared to survival.

It'll be fixed in 1.03. Now my point about missing wings/wingtips is still valid, I think.

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StSanta
II/JG2

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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Another ditching thread
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2000, 11:30:00 AM »
I ear you Santa, but again   as long as AH will have those flat terrains without obstacle, ditching at high speed and low angle should not be a problem.

Even when u rip a wing full of fuel against a tree making a big kaboom is 'not really a factor' because you leave the burning wing on the tree.

As long as the structure of the aircraft can remain fairly intact, I don't see why the fuel should ignite and burn my miserable butt. Plenty of examples of pilots ditching on airfields area where the ground is flat at high speed but small angle of impact and survived, and so far AH terrain is as flat as my ex-girlfriend <oups...sorry...revenge>.

When we will have forrest area, uneven ground type and other ditch killer, I will agree with you.

As far for the wing damage, I'm on the same wave lenght, I know it's a representation of the damage on the wing, that the whole wing is still there but full of holes. But I agree it's usually confusing, when u shot a FW, see half a wing flying away. You would believe that the guy in diving to his death when he actually levels at flower top and surfs the grass on half a mile. (I know that move I'm doing it all the time in my Niki, I can even make it back on the runway).

Santa, Salute! Be safe my friend.
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
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