Author Topic: Latest Shuttle Failure Evidence (Read 1235 times)

Skuzzy · « **Reply #30 on:** February 07, 2003, 05:47:47 PM »

I know ra. NASA started out with telling news folks they weren't ruling anything out, but the news hounds keep pushing.

I am surprised the news relations guys for NASA have not started walking out and tossing grenades into the idiots.

vorticon · « **Reply #31 on:** February 07, 2003, 05:53:00 PM »

NASA has access to grenades???

icemaw · « **Reply #32 on:** February 07, 2003, 06:01:11 PM »

The tragic thing is this prolly could have been prevented just as challenger could have been prevented. NASA had on thier managment hats again. Report I read some where yes the insullation has broken off before and cause minor damage but it would have cost more and been more dangerous to send a man over the side to check then if we just brought them down normally. Besides there was no way to fix it if it had been broken. Cost efective has no place in something as dangerous and unforgiving as space exploration. The lives of seven of the best this planet has to offer what price is that worth? I cant count that high maybe NASA managment can.

davidpt40 · « **Reply #33 on:** February 07, 2003, 09:11:08 PM »

Roger that Icemaw. I think NASAs main problem is that they are on a budget, and space exploration is not the main priority of the U.S. Sometimes it pays off to take calculated risks. Nasa knew there were a 30inch by 14inch gash in the tiles on the left wing two days before re-entry. But would it have been worth it to send another shuttle up (something never done before), to fix a problem (that had never caused a problem on re-entry before) in an environment where shuttle repair had never taken place before? That emergency repair flight would have perhaps cost NASA the equivalent of 10 or so shuttle launches, and the project managers would have come under intense scruitiny because shuttles land with missing tiles all the time.

But NASA screwed up and got the entire space crew killed, for the THIRD time (apollo 1, challenger, and Columbia).

LePaul · « **Reply #34 on:** February 07, 2003, 09:46:00 PM »

Someone on Foxnews computed the speed at which the foam would have struck the wing at, since the foam only travelled a few feet, and both objects were being propelled at the same speed, etc etc (insert fancy physics talk)...anyways...according to these scientists, they computed that the foam would have hit the wing at a speed of 66 mph or so, given the distance and such from when it sheared off, to impacting the wing.

Now, I guess the other question is, would a 65 mph piece of 2 inch foam jolt loose a heat tile or other part?

Tommy · « **Reply #35 on:** February 08, 2003, 12:46:54 AM »

I have read 2 articals on NASA sending out a crewman to see the damage and also sending up another shuttle (Atlantis is ready to fly again). They said for safety reason 1 no jet packs on board or no robotic arm to use either they could not send a crewman out.
They said operating 2 shuttles so close together would be highly dangerous.

Columbia was not equiped to go to the space station and doc there nor did it have the fuel to get there. NASA does not have a shuttle repair plan.

NASA is also very picky about the weather if iceing conditions existed then they wouldnt have launch. I do know the stuff in the tanks can cause iceing to take place.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #36 on:** February 08, 2003, 01:16:07 AM »

I think NASA is deemphasising the foam strike so that they can try to gather as much evidence and thouroughly examine as much as possible before theorizing.

Some of the problems of the tile repair scenario:

The shuttle bottom surface has nothing to hang on to.

You would need some sort of scaffolding so that a spacewalker could exert the necessary forces for the repair.

All the tiles are specifically designed for each placement.

You would have to develop some sort of bondo that would fill the void of a missing tile with most of the integrity of the original equipment.

If a bondo could be developed, does it cure in vacuum?

Perhaps you whittle a new tile out of a chunk of stuff on board. Does the adhesive work in space?

Does it cure in +/- 300F?

Does the repair cure in time, before the crew oxygen depletes?

Need to get a little ROV for flying around the shuttle to do reentry inspections.

If it had been known Columbia was damaged, would you send up a second shuttle to help, and risk launch damage on that one as well?

funkedup · « **Reply #37 on:** February 08, 2003, 01:59:20 AM »

Quote

Nasa knew there were a 30inch by 14inch gash in the tiles on the left wing two days before re-entry.

Where did you get this information?

Udie · « **Reply #38 on:** February 08, 2003, 02:14:49 AM »

Originally posted by davidpt40
Nasa knew there were a 30inch by 14inch gash in the tiles on the left wing two days before re-entry.

That's simply not true. Where are you getting your news from? I was watching one of the NASA news conferences just 2 days ago and they were showing pictures of the underside of the left wing during the launch. The pictures were taken before and after the debris hit the wing. There was no diference in the under side of the wing before or after. The guy did say that the resolution wasn't as good as they would like, but from what they could tell from those pictures there was no damage from the debris.

They've also been saying since day one that there have been tiles lost before. I even heard one of them say that they have had large pieces of tile gone during reentry and that structural damage (burning in reentry) has happened.

But NASA screwed up and got the entire space crew killed, for the THIRD time (apollo 1, challenger, and Columbia).

I hope nobody from NASA flies AH and sees this comment. If all of NASA haven't figured out what happened yet I doubt very seriously that any of us here have a clue. For all we know the flight control computer just messed up. Or the 21 year old airframe couldn't handle 28 or 29 reentries.

davidpt40 · « **Reply #39 on:** February 08, 2003, 03:03:25 AM »

Quote

That's simply not true. Where are you getting your news from?

MSN news. NASA circulated a memo 2 days before reentry about a 30x14inch gash in the wing. I assume the article meant to say gash in the tiles.

Quote

I hope nobody from NASA flies AH and sees this comment.

Why is that? The first crew death resulted from pumping the cabin of the Apollo 1 capsule full of pure oxygen. On top of that, the astronauts didn't even burn to death, they ashpixiated because of an overly complicated hatch that took 2 minutes to open under optimal conditions.

The second spacecraft destruction could have been avoided entirely. Engineers told NASA about the O-rings, I have seen the interviews. At least one of the shuttle engineers was extremely passionate about the dangers of frigid temperatures, and NASA still wouldn't listen to him.

The Columbia disentegration was the least preventable of all 3 disasters, but I do believe it was still preventable.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #40 on:** February 08, 2003, 03:45:41 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by davidpt40

Why is that? The first crew death resulted from pumping the cabin of the Apollo 1 capsule full of pure oxygen. On top of that, the astronauts didn't even burn to death, they ashpixiated because of an overly complicated hatch that took 2 minutes to open under optimal conditions.

They used oxygen because it is easier to control a simpler atmosphere, and they got away with it all thru Mercury and Gemini. Like the Zeppilin company and its use of hydrogen, NASA thought they tamed the monster.

bounder · « **Reply #41 on:** February 08, 2003, 06:02:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I think NASA is deemphasising the foam strike so that they can try to gather as much evidence and thouroughly examine as much as possible before theorizing.

Some of the problems of the tile repair scenario:

-lots of problems listed here-.

A British NASA scientist was on the radio here, saying that NASA had a heatshield tile repair kit on board the shuttle once, but due to budgetary constraints the kit, the training program and everything associated with it was cut from the Shuttle program some time ago

So they had a kit to make repairs (theoretically at least) but it got axed. I don't know if it was ever used however, and it would seem that it would not have made any difference to the fate of the Columbia.

He wasn't saying "budgetary constraints killed the Coumbia".

Anyone know if this (tile repair kit) did exist and was axed?

ra · « **Reply #42 on:** February 08, 2003, 09:38:27 AM »

Quote

Anyone know if this (tile repair kit) did exist and was axed?

I don't know, but in this case it wouldn't have mattered. I don't believe they had either the equipment or the training to spacewalk on this flight.

ra

moose · « **Reply #43 on:** February 09, 2003, 05:39:16 AM »

What I read somewhere was that none of the astronauts had the proper training for spacewalks, so that was out of the question.

There was really nothing they could do.

no fuel to get to ISS (no docking ring either)

no arm installed to examine possible damage

no one aboard who can go outside to check it out

so your options are basically zero