Author Topic: Career Progression, Scoring Attn: Midnight and Arlo (Read 356 times)

Tequilla · « **on:** February 10, 2003, 09:56:57 AM »

Greetings gents,
I have read your posts concerning career progression, deaths, penalties, and the flight sim.
I do agree that AH needs to be a flight sim.Live and die in a arena that is strictly mission based and team oriented.
Yes it is true that some will be penalized more than others based on their actions however I do not belive this to be negative.
here lies the problem for me I have found myself in situations in the current MA where I have prolonged an attack and my SA has gone to crap. So here I am in a pile of it and very nearby is a pilot that wont help. After I suffered the death and started to re-up I notice that that same pilot who would not help lands a 10 Kill streak.
Now who should get more points? the purists would argue the one that lived the moralists would argue the one with balls.
I honestly believe there are those that should be penalized who sit on the fringes jack their rank at the expense of others
This will be mission team oriented and to me that says it all protect your wings at all times.
Better to have tried than never to have tried at all in my opinion

Kweassa · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2003, 12:26:31 PM »

It is those very sort of things that is behind Midnight's (or my version of) suggestion behind an 'evaluation system' where the members of the squad will be required to evaluate each othe, after the mission is done.

If everybody feels a certain pilot is a selfish prettythanghole with the "first in at vulches, first out when being vulched" sort of mentality, he'll be evaluated at low scores despite his personal skill or rank, and thus, will suffer some sort of penalty for it.

Likewise, when a certain pilot falls in an unnecessary danger by doing stupid things, and another has no choice but to try and save him, and they both end up dead, the guy who got in trouble will be evaluated lowly, and the guy who tried to save him might be evaluated highly.

With the progress of multiple missions and multiple evaluations, it will soon be determined who's the guy that should never ever lead a squad, and who's the kind of person that has the attributes to make a good leader.

It really depends on how HTC will make it, but I'm pretty sure they also grasp the importance of such evaluations, which is but the only possible way of balancing things out concerning this problem.

ccvi · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2003, 12:48:10 PM »

This sounds better than the score thing based on kills.

Because... If you need 10 kills to gain one rank, 10 others at the same time lose 1 rank. So just 10% are able to gain 1 rank at best. 10% of those reach rank 2. Only 0.1% of all reach the 3rd rank. With 5000 players that would just be 5 players. A 4th rank wouldn't be needed at all.

Unless you throw in lots of AI that takes the beating...

Regurge · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2003, 02:03:30 PM »

Well if its in TOD, which contributes to the success of the mission more, getting 10 kills or getting killed? If everyone "sat on the fringes" and got 10 kills there wouldnt be much left of the opposing mission.

Of course the MA is totally different. Those 10 kills were back in the air seconds later, just delayed a little bit in getting to you. I come across your situation alot, some poor guy down on the deck in a hopeless turnfight against a swarm. So unless its a squaddie I pass em up, knowing I couldnt save him if I tried. I figure if they really wanted to live they would be hauling bellybutton back towards base (in which case I will help).

Your best solution is first to figure out when things started to go really bad, the point where you say "there's no way I'll make it out of this". When you see that coming its time to get out if you want to live. Next best is to fly with a squad that will back you up.

Aside from all that, how do you know the streak guy had any ammo left?

Batz · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2003, 02:13:23 PM »

See the mission leader thread.

My idea was to have a mission leader based on rank that could eject folks. It didnt sit to well with folks. I also suggested a vote system where the mission leader could "nominate" someone for ejection.

mission leader types

.vote eject tard

everyone else gets a text msg.

eject tard?

y = yes
n = no

You could require 2/3s majority.

Kweassa and Midnight suggested something a bit different.

The best thing to do is fly with a squad thats flies well as a unit. If can fly in the main and do well theres no reason you shouldnt be ok in AH2:ToD. I find it much harder to maintain good sa in the main as things change very quickly. That and the sheer numbers.

Flying smart will be key. But otoh you will have a few guys that sit on the fringes letting everyone do the work.

So I would hope there is a way to deal with this. HT mentioned "court martials" but gave no details.

Kills wont necessarily matter, you must complete the mission.

Regurge · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2003, 03:04:00 PM »

How about this Batz. Your flight intercepts the enemy. You quickly get separated in a tough 1v1 that ends with both disengaging. By the time you rejoin your flight the fight is over. You get ejected because noone saw you do anything and assumed you ran.

Greg Stelmack · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2003, 03:44:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ccvi
This sounds better than the score thing based on kills.

Because... If you need 10 kills to gain one rank, 10 others at the same time lose 1 rank. So just 10% are able to gain 1 rank at best. 10% of those reach rank 2. Only 0.1% of all reach the 3rd rank. With 5000 players that would just be 5 players. A 4th rank wouldn't be needed at all.

Unless you throw in lots of AI that takes the beating...

And they've already said there will be a ton of AI.

Batz · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2003, 04:10:05 PM »

everyone has vox or text, I am if sure you let some know what was up there would be np. Maybe it would happen.

Even in midnight/kweassa "rating" system people could decide they just dont like you and stack the deck against you.

I clarified in the other thread what I mean eject, it just makes you inelligible for those mission points. It doesnt "kill" you . The worst that happens you wasted your time in that mission.

If that mission leader, or in the case of the vote system, that group of people ejected you unfairly then you can opt not to fly with them.

If the whole thing requires folks to work together and creates a situation where we all depend on each other it would be easy to identify those "little hitlers" and isolate them.

If we are flying for rank and the missions are "difficult" enough to require team work then those "little hitlers" just end up making it harder on themselves.

Now if a guy is getting kicked out every missions hes in then no one will buy the "woe is me" whine that surely will follow.

I really only care about flying with my squad mates. But I dont suspect ht will make "squad only" missions. But if 8 of us are in a mission with goals and such I would hate getting stuck with a guy thats only point is to ruin it for us. If that means I get kicked a few times in other missions because someone doesnt like me I can live with it.

I dont know what ht has planned. I only made a suggestion, which doesnt seem to popular, but I can foresee a need for some type of mission structure.

ccvi · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2003, 06:27:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Greg Stelmack
And they've already said there will be a ton of AI.

Yeah, but why fly online for that?

Arlo · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2003, 06:31:23 PM »

You won't be just flying against AI. AI will maintain balance and bring numbers closer to realistic encounters for large battles.

Regurge · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2003, 08:32:51 PM »

You may not mind it much Batz, but new players who keep getting ejected (and I fully understand what you mean by eject) won't stay around long. New guys don't know who all the little hitlers are and there's too many situations where people can be wrongly ejected, even without malicious intent from the voters.

Assuming severe penalties or own-side kills (killshooter or court martial), what can anyone do to hinder a misison so much that you have to eject them? Simple lack of participation isn't enough reason to eject. I think the player's FE has enough information to determine the level of participation and allocate points accordingly.

Batz · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2003, 08:51:25 PM »

Yeah it may be to extreme, it obviously not to popular. We will see how it plays out. I remember the static over player controlled cvs. Anything that "gives" another player "power" will lead to whines.

wetrat · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2003, 09:19:02 PM »

I agree with Batz about the ejection, and from much experience in other online games, I'd wager that being able to vote-kick people from missions won't be abused. Games I've played in the past have had much less mature player bases, and there were generally only a few tards abusing the ability to make votes against other players.

Also, if a player is completely wet behind the ears, since this will be a simulation of a "tour of duty," it is logical to assume that the same missions won't be available to him that are to the "aces." I'm not sure about this, but neither are you.