Author Topic: Well, France got left behind at NATO  (Read 819 times)

Offline Monk

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Well, France got left behind at NATO
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2003, 07:17:42 AM »
And to add to that.
What if the UN approved it today, would it be OK, even tho yesterday it wasn't.

Offline batdog

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Well, France got left behind at NATO
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2003, 07:23:44 AM »
The UN leader did send a warning to Iraq saying they could change their mind.


 Hey..could this entire thing w/the US/UN be a a BAD COP/GOOD COP setup....


xBAT
Batmon
Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

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Offline Toad

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Well, France got left behind at NATO
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2003, 08:26:55 AM »
KB, given 9/11, I'd still rather have Bush over Gore.

Don't misunderstand me. I think Iraq does have WMD, I think they're playing the Inspectors and playing some of the Security Council. I think Saddam is another brutal dictator that the world and the Iraqis won't miss 15 minutes after he's gone.

Nonetheless, this was a Foreign Policy screwup of major proportions. An old saw we used in the AF was "Never ask the question until you already know the answer."

Clearly, they didn't go about setting this up correctly for what they wanted to do. They should have been smarter than this.

And we do need the support of the UN. Otherwise we're no different than Hussein when he took Kuwait. It's one sovereign nation attacking another without UN approval.

Fine line in this case, when a significant portion of the intelligent life on the Security Council realizes Saddam is a threat to the whole world, but it's there.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Ripsnort

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Re: Well, France got left behind at NATO
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2003, 08:29:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
NATO approves planning for Turkey's defense

Certainly not what I wanted to see.

For those of you wondering, this significantly increases my chances of not voting for Bush in '04.


I agree (We need UN backing) with the exception that if we do go in "alone" and WMD are found after we go in, then I will probably vote for Bush.

Offline Habu

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Well, France got left behind at NATO
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2003, 08:30:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
Wrong Heater.

L’attitude du général de Gaulle ....blaaa blaaa Sources Mémoires d’Espoir (Charles de Gaulle) ; La Grandeur (Maurice Vaïsse




Sorry Staffo it is you who are wrong.

That source is not credible. Can you quote a proper American source? We all know the French lie almost as good as they deny.

Offline straffo

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Well, France got left behind at NATO
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2003, 08:34:26 AM »
Sorry I'll do like you ... use a TV show as primary source of information.

I'll today start a TV-SAT subscribtion to recieve the holy word of St CNN.

I guess it will be a complete illumination ... I'm ready to recieve the wisdom of Ameerikan TV :D

Offline Hortlund

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Well, France got left behind at NATO
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2003, 08:51:28 AM »
Straffo...why are you acting like this?

When I posted about the French history, you said I was an idiot.

When someone else posted about the French history, you said he was an idiot.

When someone posted something about Vichy Indochine and thier aid to the Japanese, you say he was an idiot.

When other people are posting on the issue of France and their economic ties to Iraq, you ignore what they post and focus on irrelevant detail to avoid the real issue.

Now when a ww2 vet, who was in France 1944 and actually helped liberate France from Germany speaks his mind on the French and their attitude, he is an idiot too, and besides, tv news should not be trusted.

Now, you say that news agencies like CNN or CBS should not be trusted.

Well, let me ask you what you think is a credible news source then?

Are you aware, Straffo, that you are coming across more and more like Boroda when he is defending USSR and Katyn?

You are trying to defend something that is impossible to defend.

France trade with Iraq in 2001 was worth $1,5 billion. French companies have secured multi billion dollar concession rights to drill for Iraqi oil. Problem is they cannot do this while the sanctions are in place. France has been lobbying for the lift of sanctions against Iraq since 1994. France has been helping Iraq bypass the oil for food program since 95. One quote that I find very revealing:

"At Peugeot, a spokeswoman said the company delivered 500 cars to Iraq in the first half of the year under the oil-for-food program, about the number it delivered annually before the Gulf War.

Some trade transactions have set off greater disagreement. In March, Nabel Musawi of the London-based Iraqi National Congress told ABC News that Baghdad bought seven refrigerated trucks from Renault Trucks, and converted them into biological arms laboratories. Bernard Lancelot, a Renault Trucks spokesman, said the deal was approved under the oil-for-food program. "What the client does with the trucks later," he said, "we don't know."
[/b]

Oh and before you start come screaming for sources, let me give them to you:

http://www.un.org/Depts/oip/
or
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/irqindx.htm


Now ask yourself: Is the UN security counsel a credible source, or are they biased too or part of some conservative concpiracy?

Offline straffo

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Well, France got left behind at NATO
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2003, 09:11:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
Straffo...why are you acting like this?

When I posted about the French history, you said I was an idiot.

You were acting like an idiot
Quote

When someone else posted about the French history, you said he was an idiot.

it was almost the same post
Quote

When someone posted something about Vichy Indochine and thier aid to the Japanese, you say he was an idiot.

Wrong and I never said I was supporting Decoux it's quite the contraire I hate this guys with passion like I  hate all Vichistes


Quote
When other people are posting on the issue of France and their economic ties to Iraq, you ignore what they post and focus on irrelevant detail to avoid the real issue.

I love using smoke screen ... you  and sevral said that the french are 1st trade partner with Iraq ... it's true
And so ?



Quote
Now when a ww2 vet, who was in France 1944 and actually helped liberate France from Germany speaks his mind on the French and their attitude, he is an idiot too, and besides, tv news should not be trusted.

You trust TV news ?
Damit :(

Quote
Now, you say that news agencies like CNN or CBS should not be trusted.

Reuter , BBC are accountable ressources for exemple.

Quote
Well, let me ask you what you think is a credible news source then?

read above.

Quote
Are you aware, Straffo, that you are coming across more and more like Boroda when he is defending USSR and Katyn?

I'm worst I don't post drunk :D

Quote
You are trying to defend something that is impossible to defend.

France trade with Iraq in 2001 was worth $1,5 billion. French companies have secured multi billion dollar concession rights to drill for Iraqi oil. Problem is they cannot do this while the sanctions are in place. France has been lobbying for the lift of sanctions against Iraq since 1994. France has been helping Iraq bypass the oil for food program since 95. One quote that I find very revealing:

"At Peugeot, a spokeswoman said the company delivered 500 cars to Iraq in the first half of the year under the oil-for-food program, about the number it delivered annually before the Gulf War.

Some trade transactions have set off greater disagreement. In March, Nabel Musawi of the London-based Iraqi National Congress told ABC News that Baghdad bought seven refrigerated trucks from Renault Trucks, and converted them into biological arms laboratories. Bernard Lancelot, a Renault Trucks spokesman, said the deal was approved under the oil-for-food program. "What the client does with the trucks later," he said, "we don't know."
[/b]

We thought it was for giving fresh Hagen-daas to the poor Iraqi child.
My god ! they perverted our deal.

Quote
Oh and before you start come screaming for sources, let me give them to you:

http://www.un.org/Depts/oip/
or
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/irqindx.htm


Now ask yourself: Is the UN security counsel a credible source, or are they biased too or part of some conservative concpiracy?


1st source is ok but certainly not the 2nd
It's up to you to provide me a link on 1st source.

Offline Habu

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Well, France got left behind at NATO
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2003, 07:05:01 PM »
Dispite what you say Straffo the days of France having any say in NATO are over.

It was pretty funny to read the papers today and see France back tracking big time in order to try and gain some credibility again.

Offline straffo

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Well, France got left behind at NATO
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2003, 01:53:54 AM »
I didn't expected a so unbiased opinion from you Habu
!

Offline StSanta

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Well, France got left behind at NATO
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2003, 12:27:50 PM »
Interesting knowing rips and Toads positions.

Offline Reschke

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Well, France got left behind at NATO
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2003, 02:28:17 PM »
When we finish in Iraq we should invade France to save them from themselves...

;)

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Offline Saurdaukar

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Well, France got left behind at NATO
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2003, 04:01:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
I really hope that Bush won't seek another term. Not a likely occurrence but I can hope.


I'd like to see Fred Thompson run on the Republican ticket next round.