Author Topic: My True Feelings.....by Rude  (Read 3551 times)

Offline blitz

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #120 on: February 18, 2003, 03:12:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
methinks blitz is feeling a little guilty about all those ovens and wants to tar all humanity with his brush.
lazs


Why should i feel guilty my friend,

wasn't born when that happened

and i always fight those who deny it, even if they live in the USA, abusing the right of free speech.

I made my lessons :D


Regards Blitz
« Last Edit: February 18, 2003, 03:18:25 PM by blitz »

Offline Tumor

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Re: My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #121 on: February 18, 2003, 04:22:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
I've been reading pretty much all that has been said here in the O Club forum regarding the US, our President and war against Iraq.

Now I usually am careful as to what I say on these boards as I'm aware of the futility of debate with some of the regular posters. I've finally reached my pain threshold and will spill how I really feel about the US efforts to fight terrorism.

We will do whatever it is WE feel is necessary to secure the safety of AMERICAN citizens, AMERICAN interests and the AMERICAN way of life. If some of you one world government advocates don't like it, get over it.

It's OUR goverment.....it does not exist to serve you or anyone else other than AMERICANS.

Now you can view my position as wrong, ignorant, uneducated, simplistic or even arrogant, but I'm an AMERICAN and don't give a flip what any of you leftwing, socialists/communists, college attending, sign carrying apologists have to say regarding anything AMERICA chooses to do.

Ya see, there are bad folks in this world that want to hurt people...we now have some that want to hurt the US and it's citizens....now while some of you would tie our hands, giving those ill doers time to invent new and more effective ways to kill AMERICANS, we on the other hand are going to do something about it whether you like it or not....understand? We don't care what you think or how you feel about this issue.

So....sit back with your paint and poster board and start makin some more signs....if you think ya have something to protest now, just wait until 30 days have passed.

I feel better now:)


DAMNIT!!.... Ok fine, now I HAVE to publicly admit I LIKE this guy!

RUDE!!
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline Puke

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #122 on: February 18, 2003, 05:36:56 PM »
Blitz,  I'm all for free speech.  And that includes discussing and pointing out differences of interpretation or even outright error and includes my disagreeing with you openly and freely.  There is not much I can say to you regarding the Vietnam War though other than suggest you please take some time and visit your local library and grab a book and heed what that has to say rather than me before you speak so knowingly again about it.  But I will always disagree that it wasn't a noble effort on USA's part...I think it was.  That's really my whole point.  But again, the war was managed by politicians and managed incorrectly and that's where a lot of the trouble in the USA stems from.  In the beginning, most Americans did support the war but after a long time of mismanagement and an appearance that there was no goal or end in sight, the anti-war movement did swell.  Heck, I would probably be one of the protestors just based on how the war was executed and I was at risk to go or my son was.  This just popped into my head, has no relevance really, but did you know that Germany sold back our own bombs to us at a greatly increased price (I think from $3 to $12 a bomb or something) with full knowledge that they would be used in Vietnam?  Anyway, that's it with this topic and I'm done and will walk away.  And... David Hasselhoff sucks!   heh heh.

Offline Hangtime

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #123 on: February 18, 2003, 06:43:17 PM »
 Puke and thanks.

I admire your paitence.

Blitz, should by some chance or quirk of fate your nose ever get busted, please; think of me.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Pongo

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #124 on: February 18, 2003, 09:14:14 PM »
I would be interested in reading books about the US involvement in Vietnam that portray the goals or policys that got the US involved as noble.
 I have read a great many books on the war. But I apperently missed a whole body of works that portray the war that way.
But I am willing to learn.

Offline Toad

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #125 on: February 18, 2003, 09:33:59 PM »
Pongo, allow me to suggest:

A Better War by Lewis Sorley  ISBN 0-15-100266-5

Even if it does nothing to change your mind, I believe you will enjoy it and I believe it will at least make you question some of the "universal truths" about the VietNam war that most people read off posters and adopted as articles of faith.

It deals primarily with 1968 to 1975, is extremely well documented.

If you decide to read it, please let me know what you think.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Sandman

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #126 on: February 18, 2003, 09:42:10 PM »
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Originally posted by Rude
That statement don't hold water....

1....the democracy in Palestine is a show only...not the real deal.

2....You forgot Turkey


You're right. I forgot about Turkey.
sand

Offline Puke

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #127 on: February 18, 2003, 11:00:16 PM »
Pongo,  I'm glad you wish to learn.  Most of my best references on such a topic are actually with my father.   As an aside to explain that I'm not copping out, his best friend the past couple years was a Captain in the SVN Army and who actually spent some really bad years in prison when the North conquered the South.  Same with a few of his brothers.  Anyway, this guy is my father's tennis partner and what is funny is my father has picked up on some of the Vietnamese language so that when they play doubles, they can communicate and give instructions to each other about what they should do while the ball is in play and the opposing team has no clue what they are talking about.  That cracks me up...to hear my dad speaking Vietnamese.  And, they may take a visit to Vietnam and I'm invited to go.  :D   My father's interest has really increased recently and he knows the subject has always been of interest to me and borrowed a bunch of my books that discuss such matters, the history of the country and path to the war.  I actually study more the war as in place, and mostly Rolling Thunder and the air-war.  The actual origins of the war I find to be so complex and convoluted that it boggles my mind.  But simplified down a bit, I do think I have a pretty good understanding of how it all fell into place.  Anyway, back to the books.  I'd personally suggest not to read about "Air War" subject but those books that concentrate on the history from WW2 to Rolling Thunder.  Yeah, they are more boring than reading about the bombing.  Stanly Karnow's book is probably still available and widely popular, though there are a few errors in it that really bug me.  I really like "The United States Navy And The Vietnam Conflict, Pt I and II" as published by the Naval Historical Center, but you cannot buy them anymore.  Part II, 1959-1965 is more interesting to me.  These get into specifics and you may be able to find them in a university somewhere.  I have a lot of stuff on microfilm and electronic records and a lot of stuff from the National Archives.  I'm looking at my bookshelf and am realizing that I think most books out there pretty much provide the same history and thus the same conclusion that I draw.  McNamara's book is pretty interesting, but you'll probably "poo-poo" that one.  Anyway, what conclusion do you draw from your readings?  Why was the USA in Vietnam?  You do know our involvement goes way back, and Roosevelt wanted Vietnam's independence but when Truman took over, he didn't want to alienate France and Britain over it and backed off on that subject.  And things mount from there.  Again, what do your books say to you, I'm not sure you've stated this yet.

I'm editing to add:  Please list a few sources that support your point of view.  I will look into them.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2003, 11:34:05 PM by Puke »

Offline Toad

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #128 on: February 19, 2003, 07:31:17 AM »
Puke, did you happen to read A Better War? If so, what did you think?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline straffo

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #129 on: February 19, 2003, 07:48:52 AM »
Toad, Puke have you ever hear  "Pickle Pickle Pickle" (or something like that)

I've heard one time in a meeting were my father was speaking with an american pilot (who if I'm not mistaken was a wild weazel pilot) but it was quite a long ago and I was learning english at this time :)
 (not that I'm fluent today but my level as improved a lot thanks to the O'club posting ;))

Offline Toad

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #130 on: February 19, 2003, 08:52:06 AM »
Yep.

"Pickle" was dropping the ord. Usually repeated 2-3 times over interphone from the backseater or bombardier or whoever toggled the weapons away.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Rude

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #131 on: February 19, 2003, 08:58:41 AM »
I like you too Tumor

:)

Offline straffo

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #132 on: February 19, 2003, 09:01:45 AM »
Thanks Toad !
Now I've just to find where can he have droped bomb ... easy ;)

Offline SLO

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #133 on: February 19, 2003, 09:18:51 AM »
a little news for blitz......vietnam was a justified war.....i repeat....vietnam was a justified...hmm.. hmm police action:p


never disagree with em blitz..or they'll all jump on ya:rolleyes:

ya gotta see it the american way my german friend.....muhahahaha:D

Vietnam was a cold war action between 2 super powers of the time.....PERIOD!!!!

just like Korea.:cool:

Offline Toad

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #134 on: February 19, 2003, 09:36:50 AM »
You merely have to look at the difference between North Korea and South Korea right now and then consider how well VietNam is doing since unified under the rule of the North to see what it was all about in both Korea and VietNam.

See, Slo, the problem with the unresearched "I read it off a protest poster" view of the world is that it totally ignores the reality of the world right in front of you.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!