Author Topic: Hey Luffies  (Read 5071 times)

Offline CurtissP-6EHawk

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Hey Luffies
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2003, 08:31:28 PM »
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getting a kill is a victory in itself. it's also slightly amusing, yet annoying.


We, the "Checkertails", are not here to entertain you. We are here to entertain ourselves. If you want to shoot at us then shoot. We are here to plan a mission, Attack group with Escorts, to destroy ground targets and RTB. Escorts are there to protect us. If they, the escorts, choose to engage 10 vs 1, thats the cons problem.

As far as flying allied......I flew in an LW squad in WBs for a few months, flew in an allied squad a little less than a year, then flew the A6M3 for THREE YEARS. I even started AH in the Zero.

Warbirds Squads
20th F.G.
350th Squadron
JG-51
27th Sentia
18th Sentia

AcesHigh Squads
27th Sentia-sister squad to WBs
325th Checkertails

My Favorate Fighter is the F4U which I never get to fly cause we fly IJN during PTOs.

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my real point is that i want to see you guys get good enough to be able to handle yourselves when you find yourself in a situation where there *isn't* help readily available

Shane this seems to be a situation you get into quite often. When are you going to get good enough to kill everyone and RTB?

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i generally make ridiculous remarks when on the receiving end of an unnecessary 3-4-5-6-7+ on 1. that's just.... silly, but hey, it's "smart" lol.

Shane's words!!!!!!!

Bear76's quote:
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No one questions shane's abilty. We all have been on the receiving end of his kills. It's the ridiculous remarks he makes when he gets killed that annoys everyone. I've also seen his better moments, however it's those negative things people remember most. He could be a real positive influence in AH, but seems to prefer the role of villian. And sadly, such will be his legacy.


10beras and the rest of the CT players; If our mission is to capture, we will vulch untill its captured. If we are boming an airfield, our escorts will protect us (ie vulch etc), however if we are not capturing I asure you we will not be hanging around long to rack up on so called "scorewhoring" vulch kills.

During non-squad nights, some of us fly formation while others furball.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2003, 08:51:06 PM by CurtissP-6EHawk »

Offline Shane

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Hey Luffies
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2003, 09:28:29 PM »
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Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
Shane this seems to be a situation you get into quite often. When are you going to get good enough to kill everyone and RTB?


hard to when i have to use so much gas flying to *your* bases all the time.

i do alright in 1,2,3 vs me... it's when teh 4,5,6th come screaming down for a cheap kill (disrespecting the 2 or 3 already engaged with me) that i find annoying... it's amusing when those 4,5,6th guys get all bold on ch1 about it, lol.
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.

Offline buckweet

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« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2003, 10:47:29 PM »
I havent been here very long, but all I hear out of shane and not only shane but a few more is annoying comments, and whining about  gang banging . Well all I got to say about the comments is my mother allways told me to look over stupidity, so I'm just gonna look over shane and the other inconsiderate folks that talk about us in th CT, and about the gangbanging. We are just looking out for our fellow squad mates, if you dont like it then just dont fly in on us and expect to shoot one of us down ang get away with it, its just that plain and simple,cause we are not gonna leave the CT and we are going to have our squad nights as usual.

Offline DiabloTX

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Never heard of him...
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2003, 10:51:22 PM »
Shane?  Who's Shane?  Never heard of him...just kidding.  I guess the best spin you can put on this is now you know what the real LW went through towards the latter half of the war.  That is why they get such a high respect from the air combat crowd.  Not to down play what the Allied pilots did, namely the Brits during the BoB, but the LW did a hell of a job with what little they had.  My hat is off to them.  I think that one day we will fly the LW as, like a lot of people, they have been faves of mine for a long time, the FW-190 in particular.  But since we are modeled after a real American fighter group from that time period, you can understand why we fly Allied so much of the time.  Personally, I am looking forward to switching sides more often just to shake things up a bit.  !
"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline DeMann

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Gangbanging?
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2003, 01:42:51 AM »
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Originally posted by Shane
hard to when i have to use so much gas flying to *your* bases all the time.


Let's see ... up, grab alt, perform dive bombing run, strafe targets of opportunity, return to base as quickly as possible so that you can do the same thing again tomorrow.

That's standard tactical procedure, even for the most modern of air forces.  It works.  Get in fast, strike fast, get the h-e-double-toothpicks out fast.

My Kung Fu instructor teaches exactly the same methodology for self defense.  Even Sun Tzu sings it's praises.

It works.  It's worked for all of the great aerial aces, from Von Richthoven and Rickenbacker, to Boyington, to Yeager, to todays 4th Tactical Fighter Squadron, stationed just up the road from me at Hill Air Force Base.

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 what? find a group of 5+, grab to 30k over own base and dive to acks when in trouble hoping some other group of 5+ will drop down from their own 30k to save me?
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The other thing the great aces of the past all have in common is teamwork.  They all flew in a squadron, with a specific assignment for each mission, and each was tasked with keeping close track of a wingman.

Now, it may not be in what you see as the spirit of the game in AH.  Some of us aren't as into furballing as some of you are.  Some of us just aren't as good at it yet.  

I, for example, have been flying AH for a whole whopping month.  

I have the advantage of being a private pilot, with some high performance and aerobatic experience, but I have zero experience with air combat, and flying a sim bugs the daylights out of me because I'm not getting any kinesthetic feedback from my chair (anybody whos ever piloted a real plane will tell you that you don't get in it, you wear it).

I'm getting better at the air combat aspect of things, but let's face it, it's going to take me a long time to get up to your standards of dogfighting.  It takes time and experience.  Fortunately this is a sim, and getting shot down in AH doesn't carry the permanent consequences of the real life counterpart.

Maybe, when you see our big blob of yellow dots headding out on a mission, you might consider getting together your own squad, and forming an intercept mission.

Rather than upping by yourself and diving into the middle of our mission, where our CAP flight is waiting to pounce on you, and then complaining about being "gangbanged" ... you could employ some small group tactics of your own against our small groups.  (Buzzing a flight of 4 109s in on our cap, to draw them away from the 47's, who will then be pounced on by the other 4 109s who were hiding in the radar ground clutter for those big, slow, heavy juggs to come down to the altitude where the 109s will stomp all over them, for example.)

There's more to being a great pilot than being able to wax everybody else's tail 1 on 1, or even 2/3/4 on 1.  Teamwork and group tactics are as much an integral part of air combat as individual fighting skill.

The greatest quarterback in the world can't win a football game if he doesn't have a good offensive line, and some good receivers to pass the ball to.

All we're doing as the Checkertails is trying to build BOTH individual skills, AND team skills.

Try it some time, you might like it. :)

Offline Slash27

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Hey Luffies
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2003, 02:06:54 AM »
Great post DeMann. <> Alot people share that same view. Kinda sad people cant just shut up let people enjoy the game instead of pissing and moaning because you wont fly like they want you too.

Offline Shane

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Hey Luffies
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2003, 02:47:07 AM »
kinda hard to enjoy 63-21 odds. and actually that comment was directed in general, some of you guys guiltily felt you needed to hump my ankle about it. < shrug >

call me when these supposed individual skills (building battling?) manifest themselves.

til then... lemming on!
« Last Edit: February 28, 2003, 03:10:54 AM by Shane »
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.

Offline DiabloTX

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Hey Luffies
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2003, 05:47:05 AM »
*Hands Shane a box of tissues for his tears.
"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline Shane

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Hey Luffies
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2003, 07:52:24 AM »
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.

Offline Oldman731

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Hey Luffies
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2003, 07:57:38 AM »
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Originally posted by Shane
kinda hard to enjoy 63-21 odds.  

I agree with this.  Seems odd to me that anyone would want to fly on the side that has such a huge advantage, or why anyone would want to run an overwhelming-power mission in a game where you play against real people.  But I guess that's all part of the squad thing.

As to the "hey, it's good tactics and helps win the war," I am tempted (but only tempted) to say, "Take it to the MA.  That's where the win-the-war crowd goes to play Virtual Napoleon."  However, on balance, the fact is that I would rather have you guys in the CT, even if you do make it tough to be a flyer for the other side.  Beware of the possibility that this sort of thing will kill the CT.  Not all of us are willing to face that kind of odds, and it does no one any good to drive people away.

- oldman

Offline Jospe2

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Hey Luffies
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2003, 09:58:07 AM »
I have wittnessed the mass destruction of the Checker Tails.  I must say impressive team work.   Keep up the good work.  It will only force the opposite side to come up with a solution.  

I also dont mind the the overwhleming odds of 2-4 vs. 1. ( 5 - 6 does seem rediculous )  I think it hones the SA to the upmost and has Shane said there is no better feeling then to know that you took some with ya or even just survived it.   However I am also bewildered when this happens and 4 guys are on your 6 only have the next group of friendlys come in and wax them.   It makes more sense to let 2 take on the one and have the others cap the fite.    Again more a matter of personal preference.   Its your dime do what ya want w/it.

Jospe

Offline DiabloTX

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Hey Luffies
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2003, 11:01:33 AM »
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Originally posted by Shane


Ooooohhhhh, touchy, touchy!!!  *Hands Shane yet another box of his most favorite tissues, Kleenex with aloe vera.
"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline DeMann

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About the odds
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2003, 12:06:55 PM »
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Originally posted by Shane
kinda hard to enjoy 63-21 odds.


So, you want even odds?

Go do what Lowe did:  Hit the TA, find pilots with promise, recruit them into your squad, start training them, and take them on missions.  Build your own team, and then square them off against ours.

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call me when these supposed individual skills (building battling?) manifest themselves.


Dogfighting isn't the only skill of combat pilots.  It's also not the only capability to design an aircraft around.  Just take a look at the modern US air force.  

Would you go out in an A-10 to try and dogfight an F-16?

If you would, you're an idiot.  The A-10 is a tank buster, always has been, always will be.  It sucks as a dogfighter.  

The F-16 is a purebred dogfighter.  It was designed as a daytime short to medium range scramble interceptor.  It's since been bastardized to do long range intercept and even light ground attack missions, but if you really want a fight-in, fight-out ground attack plane, pick the F-15E or the F/A-18, cuz that's what they're built for.  Oh, and the pilots of A-10s, F-16s, F-15s, and F/A-18s also receive vastly different training, and employ vastly different individual and group tactics ... based directly on their airframes and the missions they were designed to perform.

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til then... lemming on!


What, you'd rather everyone fly and fight exactly like you do?  Now that would be a lemming mentality.

I've been assigned to a ground attack squadron, flying a ground attack airplane.  Therefore, I fly ground attack missions on squad nights.  Some of you call them "Milk Runs", but try it yourself sometime ... it takes skill and practice to drop those bombs on exactly the right spot, the auto-ack can be killer, and WideWing and the0xman are seriously dangerous in an M16 or FLAK GV (and awfully hard to take out!).

On non-squad time, I'm in the TA, in interceptor and air superiority aircraft, working on learning their handling characteristics and flight envelopes,  developing my SA and improving my dogfighting tactics.         Eventually I'll start learning the ins and outs of flying a heavy bomber.

I intend to learn *all* of the planes in AH, and I intend to master them all.  I realize that will take time, and needs to be approached one plane at a time ... but it will make me a better, more complete, and more well rounded pilot.

After all, if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

For now, my mission for my team is to become a master at ground attack.  We also have people specializing in flying air superiority, and eventually I will also learn that role, in order to become a more valuable asset to my team.

So how about, instead of complaining about how the Checkertails run their team, why not go out and build your own team?  Go to the TA and the MA and recruit people.  If you want to build an interceptor wing, recruit people who like to dogfight, like you do.

Instead of complaining about how uneven the sides are on our squad nights, why not DO SOMETHING about it by building your own sqaud to even things up?

I'm sure there's plenty of people who would love to fly with you in an organized squad, with regular training by someone with your skill and experience.  You could have the whole CT crawling with little Shanes. (Scary thought  :p )

My point is, that you can either keep griping about the uneven sides, or you can do something about it.

I find that doing something about a problem is vastly more fulfilling than just griping about it.

I challenge you.

I challenge you to build your own squad to even up the sides in the CT.  I challenge you to broaden your horizons and become a leader.  I challenge you to hone and improve your skills by teaching newbies to become great dogfighters (after all, if you REALLY want to learn something, you teach it :) ).

Offline Shane

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Re: About the odds
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2003, 12:29:58 PM »
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Originally posted by DeMann
So, you want even odds?

Dogfighting isn't the only skill of combat pilots.
 
What, you'd rather everyone fly and fight exactly like you do?
 
I've been assigned to a ground attack squadron, flying a ground attack airplane.  

Instead of complaining about how uneven the sides are on our squad nights, why not DO SOMETHING about it by building your own sqaud to even things up?

My point is, that you can either keep griping about the uneven sides, or you can do something about it.

I challenge you to build your own squad to even up the sides in the CT.  

I challenge you to hone and improve your skills by teaching newbies to become great dogfighters

(after all, if you REALLY want to learn something, you teach it :) ).




1.  precisely even odds?  no.  relatively even, in a *game*, in which side switching is nearly umlimited and the general practice to prevent serious imbalnances?  yeah.

2. try not and confuse the game with real-life.  in real-life 5 guys out of 7 chasing one low baddie just ain't gonna happen if there's any semblence of military discipline.

3. like me? everyone? not saying "fly like me"  saying... learn enough to be at least a decent stick so you can give a good account when that situation arises. also, 2 or 3 more coming into a fight when there's already 2 or 3 on one guy is simply... silly.
and weak.

4. nothing wrong with be a well-rounded pie-let. keyword: well-rounded.
 

5. it's hard enough to attract people into the CT as it is and i have no particular desire to run a squad.  you still don't get it about having way lop-sided numbers isn't much for for anyone.  did your horde enjoy beating up an empty airfield and town with no opposition?  you could have taken 4 bases at once with 5 people each, instead of one empty base with 20 people milling around just hoping to see something moving.


6. why don't *you* do something about it?

7. see # 5

8. i do teach, i do offer tips, you'll find me doing it in the DA or even MA/CT at times when things are relatively quiet.

9. who's teaching *you* to become a good dogfighter? i don't mean a good little borg, either.
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.

Offline DeMann

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Re: Re: About the odds
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2003, 01:09:54 PM »
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Originally posted by Shane
1.  precisely even odds?  no.  relatively even, in a *game*, in which side switching is nearly umlimited and the general practice to prevent serious imbalnances?  yeah.

2. try not and confuse the game with real-life.


Perhaps you should take your own advice here.  Lighten up, dude!

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  in real-life 5 guys out of 7 chasing one low baddie just ain't gonna happen if there's any semblence of military discipline.


You're right, and we're working on it.  Unit cohesion, like anything else, must be practiced, and takes time to develop.

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4. nothing wrong with be a well-rounded pie-let. keyword: well-rounded.


And just how well rounded are you Shane?  All I've ever seen you do is shoot people down and then either gloat or complain about it.

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5. it's hard enough to attract people into the CT as it is and i have no particular desire to run a squad.  


Well, then, maybe someone with a smaller ego and a higher level of maturity will take up the challenge.

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you still don't get it about having way lop-sided numbers isn't much for for anyone.  


Oh, I get it alright.  But all your squeakin and moanin only makes us .squelch 1.

I agree that it would be a lot funner if the sides were more even, but that would mean dividing our squad, and defeating the purpose of having a squad to begin with.

Let's face it, if our squad would have been flying LW last night, the numbers would have been just as lopsided, just in the opposite direction.

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did your horde enjoy beating up an empty airfield and town with no opposition?  you could have taken 4 bases at once with 5 people each, instead of one empty base with 20 people milling around just hoping to see something moving.


Actually it was quite enjoyable, and we were most definitely NOT unopposed.  We lost a good number of our planes to a couple of guys in FLAK vehicles.

Each of us had a specific target, a particular hangar or set of guns to neutralize.  We each played a specific role on our team, and did it well.

Admittedly, it would have been more challenging if there had been more LW aircraft around.

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6. why don't *you* do something about it?


I am.  I'm inviting you (or whoever wants to, since you seem more interested in staying in your whiney little comfort zone) to build a LW squad for us to fight against. :)

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8. i do teach, i do offer tips, you'll find me doing it in the DA or even MA/CT at times when things are relatively quiet.


That's odd ... all I ever see you do is make snide remarks.

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9. who's teaching *you* to become a good dogfighter?


Robert Shaw, and the Checkertails' S-5.

Give it another month, and you'll be finding yourself unable to shake me off your tail while I pound rounds into it. :cool:

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 i don't mean a good little borg, either.


Heh.  I'm hardly a borg.  Just ask Lowe, Jester, or any of the other Checkertails.