109 series discussion in the MA

[Nashwan]

No plane in AH would outclimb it up to 7km(~21,000ft)

The 109K4 had a max climb rate of about 22 m/s using B4 fuel and MW50,  declining to about 17 m/s at 6000m.

It was better than that using C3 and MW50, but it's not clear that they used C3 fuel much, because supplies were limited, and the 190A series aircraft needed C3.

The Spitfire XIV would outclimb a 109K4 using B4 and MW50.

[Don]

>>the k4 was armed with a 30mm MG 108 cannon firing through propeller hub and two 13mm MG 131 machine guns in the cowl<<

Batz:

The above is completely accurate by all of the accounts I have read.  I am a bit confused tho, as some of the argument I heard did have to do with the G10 as a K4 which is in no way correct; I don't know however, who had said this.
Regarding armaments, hell the Nazis were experimenting with many different gun sets in their planes, in an effort to find the most effective gunset to bring down Allied Bombers effectively.

According to a Book I read about 6 months ago (and posted about in here also), the G series had suffered to an extent from its original design by the more powerful engine and pressurized cockpit; it made the a/c much heavier and much less manueverable. The G10 was prolly the best match between increased armor, pressurized cockpit, and an engine powerful enough to drive it all.

I also recall that the K4 while it was as fast as the late war model allied a/c, it was no where near as manueverable as the allied a/c due to the bastardization of the original graceful airframe of the Me-109.

[Batz]

The 109-G6 was the most heavily produced varient of the Gustav series. Wartime development tried to make the plane a more suitable bomber interceptor. This largely failed due to the small size of the airframe. Instead of a sleek and maneuverable interceptor the plane became known as "The Flying Blister" due to all the modifications done on the airframe. But the g6 was the 109 that the made the most "Aces". Not all gs had pressurized cockpits, most didnt.

During the spring and summer of 1942 the assembly lines began to switch to the production of the Bf 109 G, deliveries of which commenced in the late summer of 1942 and which was appearing on all war fronts by the end of that year. The basic Bf 109 design might be considered to have passed the peak of its development, for with the introduction of the Bf 109 G-series the constant opertional demands for increased fire power and additional equipment brought with them a serious deterioration in the fighter's flying characteristics. The most important change denoted by the introduction of the Bf 109 G was the installation of the more powerful Daimler Benz DB 605 A engine in which the cylinder block had been re-designed to obtain the maximum possible bore with the existing cylinder centers, the permissible rpm increased, and numerous other changes made in comparison with the Daimler Benz DB 601. These changes resulted in an output of 1085 kW (1475 HP) at 2800 rpm at sea-level, and 995 kW (1355 HP) at 5700 m (13700 feet).

f4 - 6393 lbs

g2 -  6834 lbs

g6 - 6940 lbs

g10 7400 lbs.

k4 - 7400lbs.

By htc chart the g10 we have should hit 452 (it actually is a few mph short), same as is normally reported as the top speed as the k-4. What folks were saying is that the g10 we have in AH is the best version of the g10 and its speed is almost equal to the k4.

But the arguement wildeman brought up is Armament, he claims like a lot of other folks that the k4 had 15mm in the cowl. It didnt, an mg151/15mm or 20mm couldnt fit there. So when folks were replying to wildeman they were using the similiarity to our g10 to the k4 to say look the "g10 we have is almost the same as the the k-4". With the exception of the Flettner tabs and revised elevator authority, also the rudder had a tab[?] (cant remeber what it was called) that helped to deflect it at high speeds. The fuselage also was a bit different from G-series in structure. It wasnt drastically different but enough so that if you look at the line drawings the wmaker linked you can see. The k-4 could roll and manuver "better" then the g10 at higher speeds.

Hazed

Do a search on this board or goto to Butchs site and and research it or hell ask Ho-hun or Verm. The K4 did not have a mg151 in the cowl. Search and check for yourself. This has been brought up and beat to death on this board, IL2 boards, and a ton of other places.

Dont you think that if they could put mg151/15mm in the nose they would have went with 20mm? Especially, against bombers? Just because its in a "book" doesnt mean its correct.