Author Topic: Someone please tell me I'm not insane..  (Read 1441 times)

Offline Mickey1992

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Someone please tell me I'm not insane..
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2003, 03:38:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
sirloin, i can see how we really screwed Panama by giving them the canal,but could you explane what we did to Grenada that was so bad ?


We didn't screw Panama, we screwed Colombia.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2003, 03:41:02 PM »
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Originally posted by AWMac
*Standing Ovation*

On target Muckmaw!

:D


Get off me!!!!!!!

Offline muckmaw

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« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2003, 03:53:20 PM »
Now here's my take.

If the whole gulf war was about oil, why did we stop halfway?

If we did then, what we're planning now, we would have a puppet regime in Iraq pumping all the beautiful black stuff our way.

But we liberated Kuwait, protect Saudi, and went home. Why not finish the job and grab the oil? Maybe the original gulf war was more about stabilizing a region we depend on for our energy, rather than stealing crude.

As for President Bush, guess what....he is the president. So he's not the greatest speaker. Does that fault his leadership? FDR could'nt walk. Did that make him less potent as a President?

A leader should not be judged by the quality of sound bites he produces. If that's the case, let's elect Kasey Kasem.

Perhaps we have trouble following the man's speeches because we're so used to listening to BS, that we can't understand a person when they speak the truth.

Look, is Bush right? I don't know.

But I do know, he's the President. He gets the briefing from the NSA, CIA, etc, and knows a hell of a lot more than any of us.

Unlike many, I trust our government to act in our best interest.

If Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon, or any other President was in office during this trying time, he too would have my support, be he a democrat or republican.

Offline Frogm4n

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« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2003, 03:55:26 PM »
we stole panama from columbia so we could create the canal. straight up and outright stole it, its pretty funny. We have no international support because we ignore the europeon requests for air pollution standards and we go around breaking and pulling out of treatys. if the bush admin would have did a little more compromiseing he might have more support in the world. instead when he delt with world politics before 9/11 he ignored his allies requests and now they ignore his.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2003, 04:02:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by muckmaw
Meanwhile, I stand by my original point. Let's bring our boys home, and let the rest of the world sort it out.

You don' t want our help? Fine. You handle it.


The problem with your little theory is who to nuke after a terrorist attack in the US. And what possible good you think would come after such a 50 missiles-strike on for example Baghdad.

Your problem is you are thinking isolationistic in a co-dependency-economic world.

Just one example:
The average US citizen likes his car(s). He also likes to buy gas for his car as cheap as possible. There is plenty of oil out here "in the rest of the world", there are some oil in the US. But if you would try to only use US oil, your gas prizes would skyrocket. Nobody would like that...least of all mr average US citizen
(aka "mr voter"). So the US buys its oil abroad...cheap, good 'ol arabian oil.

problem #1
Everyone knows how much the US likes their cars, and thus everyone knows about the US dependency on oil. Terrorists can strike at oil fields abroad and/or pipelines or tankers taking the oil to the US. If there is a terrorist attack on some Kuweiti oil field ...who do you nuke and why?

problem #2
Suppose there is a coup in oil-supplying-nation#1 removing the US friendly government, and installing mr Islamistic fundamentalist moron as president. He cancels the oil deliveries to the US ...who do you nuke and why?

problem #3
Oil-supplying-nation#2 is run by a "semi-democratic" government. problem is Big-bad-neighbour#1 that lies right next to Oil-supplying-nation#2. Big-bad-neighbour#1 wants Oil-supplying-nation#2's oild fields. Oil-supplying-nation#2 wants the US to protect its borders..."but no nukes please...see we like our little desert, and we want to keep living in this part of the world even after an eventual war against Big-bad-neighbour#1" they say.
...how do you want to defend Oil-supplying-nation#2?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2003, 04:26:43 PM by Hortlund »

Offline Frogm4n

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« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2003, 04:05:40 PM »
QUOTE]Oil-supplying-nation#2 is run by a "semi-democratic" government.  [/QUOTE]

heh the saudis are anything but democratic, saddam's government is more democractic then they are.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2003, 04:20:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Frogm4n
heh the saudis are anything but democratic, saddam's government is more democractic then they are.

Who said I was talking about the Saudis? To avoid discussions like this one I was referring to some unknown nation known as "Oil-supplying-nation#2"

Offline muckmaw

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« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2003, 04:21:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund

Your problem is you are thinking isolationistic in a co-dependency-economic world.


Excelllent point!

You are 100% correct, but I am speaking from an overly simplistic, ego-centric, position. Of course, the nuclear situation does not make sense. However, let's talk about Pan Am 103. We traced the destruction of that aircraft back to Libya. We launched an attack and bombed a few airfields there. I don't think we did enough collateral damage, but the libyans have been quiet for sometime now.

As for the oil problem. Let's assume one of your scenarios, and oil supply is greatly reduced. Mr. and Mrs. America are paying $5.00 a gallon at the pump and they are angry. They start screaming for detroit to come up with more cars that get 100 miles to the gallon. They start screaming and protesting for the government of a country that put a man on the moon, to perfect an alternative energy source. Do you think it would get done? I do.

And who would we be hurting? The arabs? Sure. But who else? Who does not want the US to have automobiles that get great milage, or use alternative energy?

The United States oil companies, thats who.

I digress, but why do you think we don't have trollys anymore? There used to be trolly systems all over the united states. What happened to them? They were bought up by shell companies owned by Goodyear, GM, and Ford. Trollys were dismantled, somtimes haveing the tracks removed OVERNIGHT, in some cities.  Why? So GM, and Ford could sell more cars, and Goodyear could sell more tires.

It's not so much the Arabs we have to worry about as it is the CEOs.

Offline straffo

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Re: Someone please tell me I'm not insane..
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2003, 04:28:45 PM »
FYI the greek are not french citizen.

Offline BGBMAW

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« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2003, 04:38:30 PM »
First The US has MANY allies..a Dozen Plus...So to say we are alone is Foolish and uneducated...

Who is saying no..France-Germany-China-Russia?? Please that is far from the majority...


Second---Saying we pull out and say"if you attak  us we will send a BIG BOM" we are not diddlying around...To me is great..yes it cant be that easy but dam close...

What we want to do.Is tell the Gov.s' of teh world to POLICE THERE COUNTRY..If not we are going to police it for them...And they will not do well like that...

Quote
HORTLUND says...The problem with your little theory is who to nuke after a terrorist attack in the US. And what possible good you think would come after such a 50 missiles-strike on for example Baghdad.


So this says..Countries...CLEAN UP YOUR CRAP!!!..plain and simple...


BiGB
xoxo

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2003, 04:51:14 PM »
Muck, I owe yah a beer.



Note:

lets not invade iraq. lets bring the troops back, but let 'em stop over at Marseilles, give 'em ALL tickets to Paris for a lil 30 day R&R leave.

:D
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Gyro/T69

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« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2003, 07:09:02 PM »
Could be more to this that Iraq.

Big demonstrations on the island of Cyprus today in favor of having the whole island put under Turkish rule. Turkey and Greece have been at odds over who owns the island for many years. http://www.pio.gov.cy/news/daily_update_index.html

Could Greece be pissed over the money Turkey would
receive for basing US troops have something to do with it?

Offline Kanth

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Re: Re: Someone please tell me I'm not insane..
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2003, 07:44:35 PM »
Il n'a pas dit qu'ils soient.

La grande poste n'est pas complète sans un coup aux Français

Vous comprenez.

Quote
Originally posted by straffo
FYI the greek are not french citizen.
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Offline Frogm4n

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« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2003, 08:06:30 PM »
are there any countries that export oil that are democratic?

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2003, 12:40:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by slimm50
Go, mucmaw, go. I agree 100%.:mad:


Really? That's not what you said in this thread..

FWIW, I tend to agree with Muckmaw.

Rather than this confrontational pre-emptive, beat them before they beat us country that Bush seems to want, I want the U.S. to be more of a, "You make me get out of this easy chair and I will kick your ass" kind of country.
sand