Author Topic: Stategy thread #2  (Read 266 times)

Tincan

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Stategy thread #2
« on: August 04, 1999, 10:51:00 AM »
Strategy Model for Aces High

The goal here is to create a dynamic environment in which all sides of the conflict have the opportunity to engage in both tactical and strategic air operations, that when successful produce results consistent with winning a war.

For this to work you need to create a cause and effect environment that existed (still exists) when an air campaign is undertaken.  What I’m talking about here, is the use of air power to limit\destroy the enemy’s ability to wage war.  I’ll skip the military doctrine on the topic but I think you know what I mean.

To accomplish these goals I suggest you need to create an infrastructure of resource and production centers that make up a country’s war machine.

Lets say you take Oil fields, refineries, factories, rail yards, airfields, population centers etc. and scatter them across a map and connect them all by road, rail and rivers.  Each resource center will produce and transport there given product to where ever it is needed to generate war material.  To keep it simple lets say the only military unit necessary is a tank.

Example:
 
A refinery produces gas that is shipped to factory via transport.  Ore is shipped to steel plant to make steel then on to the factory by train.  There the two are combined to generate a tank that is shipped to a staging area where it dismounts and heads to the front where it engages the enemy.  The AI will simulate the battle at the front in a sort of tank for tank scenario.  Resources are continuously being produced and consumed in battle at the front which, without intervention, do not change.

Enter the air war.

Now each country has the opportunity to destroy the others war machine.  Bombing factories, population centers, bridges, oil refineries, transports, trains etc., all have the net affect of delivering fewer tanks to the front.  When one side begins to out damage the other an imbalance occurs with one side fielding more tanks causing the front to shift.  Resources, airfields and the like are then captured as the front swings back and forth until one side is able to reach a point where they are declared a winner and the game reset.

Strategic bombers will have a variety of targets to hit all over the map.  If the accuracy issue of the norden is addressed then this should keep the heavy bombers hitting the larger strategic targets such as industry and population centers.

Tactical bombers can take on the duty of destroying the enemy’s tanks on route or at the front as well as trains, bridges and so on.  I would also suggest that certain installations could be disabled by paratrooper attack similar to the current tower capture in WB

Fighters then take on their role, which I need not go into to.

For purposes of game play I would suggest that the choice of aircraft and performance issues not be affected by the bombing campaign.  No one wants to log to find that there favorite ride is anything less than it should be.

Lay over top of this a state of the art WWII air sim with all the fixin’s and you’ve got one hell of a game on your hands.

Anyone with me?

Offline Sharky

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Stategy thread #2
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 1999, 03:35:00 PM »
Hey Tincan,

Sounds good, kinda like Civ II meets Warbirds  

Sharky Out

Corvet

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Stategy thread #2
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 1999, 05:47:00 PM »
Outstanding idea.

Makes flying in the MA (or whatever) worthwhile.



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S/L Corvet, 416 RCAF
FLY CANUCK!

416rcaf.org

Offline Downtown

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Stategy thread #2
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 1999, 08:15:00 AM »
Sounds familiar to me.

I'm for it.


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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG

Bad Omen

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Stategy thread #2
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 1999, 10:53:00 PM »
Having read the posts in this thread and the other one and adding my own thoughts, I have come up with my own ideas. I know this won't happen right away, will take development, tweaking and maybe some hardware advances;-), but here it is.

Sorry its so long, but I don't know how else to convey all my ideas.

I call it,
My Dream Strategy Arena:

Hierarchy:

Capitol City

Each country has a capitol city. This city is the largest for each country. It contains oil refineries, ball bearing plants, steel mills, auto factories, etc. and of course the Seat of Government which must be captured to Win the War. It has the largest air facility(maybe more than one), Army bases(also maybe more than one), the main ports. It is the hub of the country. It is linked to the other towns of the country by water, road, rail, or any combination thereof.

Towns
Towns have factory or factories, Army base and an airport/airstrip, usually bomber-capable.

Forward Bases
Forward bases consist of a fighter base. It is supported by an Army Base which is of a varying distance away. It is connected to a city by a road, rail or waterway; usually just by one.

Vehicles:

Planes
Of course. All player controlled only. Transport, bombers, fighters.

Army Vehicles
Tanks, both AAA and gun tanks, they have their own little rolling set, from early war PZII’s to the Tiger.
Trucks and jeeps, for troop transport, also with AAA variants.

Ships
Two types of Fleets: CV and Invasion. Each country gets one of each.
Transports. All kinds. River and ocean going. Landing craft are a special type which travel with the Invasion Fleet. Also various gun boats for defense.

The Setup:


Supply
Capitol City supplies the Towns with the materials to the factories, as well as troops for the Armies. The Towns ships “finished product”(your a/c or tank) to the local Army Bases and Airfields. Airfields and Army Bases each have a “vehicle park” where aircraft or tanks or vehicles spawn. They also have ammo bunkers, fuel tanks, parts depot, and barracks which need to be supplied. Supplies can come by rail, highway, river, or by sea. Also, supplies can always be airlifted by transport plane. Supplies are broken down as ‘finished product’, ammo/ordnance, fuel, parts, troops, and general. Finished product can not be flown in(its too big). General supplies and troops can be parachuted, everything else must be landed.

Capturing
Cities, Towns, Airfields and Army bases can all be captured. Each has a HQ of some sort which must be taken. They are captured only by troops, either from ground or paratroops. Once a town/base/airfield is captured, the amount of defense it can put up immediately depends on how many troops are still alive to defend it. A newly captured area is often very vulnerable and needs supplies right away or it may be easily re-captured.

When an Army Base/Airfield/Town has been captured, and enough supplies are brought to it, then planes and vehicles begin to spawn there for the new owners.

Note: the seat of government at Capitol City needs to be captured to win the war. However, you cannot just capture the Capitol without capturing the other towns and win the war. If the Capitol is captured before all the other towns,  the government moves to one of the towns. This won’t happen often though, the Capitol is well defended, especially by AAA.;-)

AI Combat
All ground troops( and of course the paras) are AI controlled. This includes the Tanks, troop trucks, etc. They spawn at the Army bases, and when enough are spawned (say, a platoon of 4 tanks, together with 2 troop trucks and at least 1 AAA tank) they head for the front.

When they get to the front, which is to say they get within a set range from the enemy, they open fire. If  they overwhelm the enemy, they move forward until they meet more resistance. When they get to an Army Base, Town, or other such capturable piece, they unload the troops from the trucks and the troops attempt to capture it not unlike how paras now capture fields(in that ‘other’ sim). The tanks fire on the defenses, hopefully knocking them out for the troops to move in. Note that when a base is attacked by ground troops(including paras), all forces near that base not otherwise engaged will rush to the defense.

Note that as the attacking troops move farther away from its bases, the supply lines get longer and the defenders’ supply lines get shorter, so it gets harder to get reinforcements to keep going until it captures a new base.

The Invasion Fleet is a special case. It not only transports troops, but vehicles as well. When the force lands(after the required ship-to-shore bombardment ;-)), and survives initial resistance if any, after a set time creates its own Army Base(the Beachhead), with its own temporary Port. It needs supplies from ships(or airdrops) to go farther until it captures more bases or towns and develops a ground supply line, if possible. After this point, it is like any other ground-based AI units. Fleets can be controlled by Players, but the Player must be of a certain high rank.(This also goes for CV Fleets). Note that due to the ‘island’ nature of an invasion force in relation to its supplies, it is very critical to keep its temp port open and supplied, and/or supplied by air drops.

What Effects What?
City production effects factory production at the towns. Fuel supply effects what’s available to fuel planes/vehicles. Troops effect how many are available for attack, how many paras are available, how many AAA are manned. Ordnance supply affects what’s available to load on your plane, or how many rounds are supplied to tanks. Parts supply affects if your plane can be repaired, or if any new planes are available.

Gameplay:

AI Overall Picture
The AI is not that smart. If everything is even, and no players are around, the AI battles quickly turn to stalemates. There is a constant stream of supplies moving from Capitol City to the Towns, a constant stream of supplies moving from towns to Army and Air bases, and a constant stream of vehicles moving to the front. At the front the equal forces slowly pick each other off, only to be replaced by new forces.

The Player
The player(s) make the difference. A Player can fly a P47 loaded with rockets and bombs and take out tanks, thereby giving his force the ability to break through the enemy line. The Player can bomb the towns and cities and factories slowing down the production of goods and thereby affecting supplies available, as well as the supply of troops(note: heavy bombers can’t pinpoint bomb by bomb what they hit, if you drop one you drop them all). The Player can destroy transports or bridges and slow down the flow of goods and supplies. The Player can attack ships and stop them from attacking. The Player can drop troops on enemy Army Bases, Towns, Airfields to help capture them. The Player can drop troops(or supplies) on friendly Airfields/Air Bases/ Towns to help reinforce them and help keep them from being captured. The Player can also drop supplies on its own bombed out towns and cities to improve ‘Morale’ and decrease rebuild times and increase production rates. Of course, the Player can also go up in his favorite fighter and try to stop the enemy from doing any of the above.

The Player can also select a tank anywhere on the battlefield and man it if he wants and take control of an AI platoon  to help capture areas or otherwise affect the ground war.

Note that if you die, you can not start from the base you were at but must start from a major(bomber) base located near a town or city(but not the one you died at if it was a major base). Think like you are starting as a new person just recruited from the local town.

Morale
This is an added factor that ties with rebuild rates. When you bomb a ‘civilian’ population, it effects morale of that city or town. In other words if civilian buildings(not factories) are carpet bombed, it affects production at local factories and amount of troops that can be sent out from that city(think loss of civilian lives). Note: if a city is accidentally bombed by its own forces, morale really drops.

However, Morale can also be enhanced. General supplies air-dropped over bombed out towns will improve morale. Victories(captures) will improve overall morale.

Balance
What happens when one country has less Players than another country(and one always will)?  Balance is brought in by 3 factors: rebuild time, morale, and the RPS. First, a countries rebuild rates and morale status is multiplied by an inverse factor to its population of Players. In other words, all other things being equal, the country with the fewest players has the quickest rebuild times and the highest Morale. This means that the lowest populated country will eventually build more and have more AI controlled vehicles and troops moving to the front. Therefore the ground war, if ignored by the more populated countries, will actually start to go in favor of the lower populated country. This also means more targets for the more populated countries!

Also, when a country begins to really lose territory, things begin to happen. Suddenly Morale starts to shoot up. Factory output starts to shoot up. A couple of new technology fighters or ground vehicles start to appear ahead of schedule of the RPS. One last shot at keeping from being destroyed. Think Germany in its last years. The civilian population pulling together. Germany got more production in 1944 while being bombed to smithereens than it did in any other year.

Then when a country is finally overcome and its Government seat is captured, everything resets.

Putting it all Together:

Imagine logging into Aces High. You are first asked what country you want to join. (You are not allowed to change countries for (at least) 15min for ‘security’ reasons. You of course pick ‘your’ country, the Knights.

Now the you come to the Main Screen. You have the option to go to the War Map, Instant Action, Mission List, or Strategy Room. You go to the War Map. You are now looking at a map of all the towns and airfields and (known) Army Bases. You see the front line, at least due to the fog of war, as best known by intelligence reports of that time. You click on to a city name that is close to the front. Not good. Morale is down, factory is damaged, output is down 50%. Needs raw goods from the City. Hmmm. You click on the forward base, F4, near the town. Even worse, few planes available, no spare parts, low on fuel, out of ordnance.

Ok, you get out of there. Go to Instant Action. Here is a list of missions that will get you into combat quickly. Under Air to Air, you see that CAP is needed at F3. Another mission suggests Fighter Sweep over F12.
Under Air to Ground, intelligence reports a large convoy headed up the river from the Rooks Capitol City.
Under Ground to Ground, tank to tank combat is heavy near F4.
Under Transport, …wow! They are offering triple points for pilots flying successful supply drops to South Town!….

Hmm, lets see what’s under the Mission List. I see Doc is putting together a B-17 raid on the Rooks Oil refineries. Needs BUFF pilots and escorts. Takeoff at 1800 hrs…. Oh the guys of VF-17 are planning a train-busting mission, I’ll check that one out. Oops! Must be a squad thing, it comes up classified and wants a password.

Well, I’ll set up a new mission for the squad, let’s go to the Strategy Room. Ok, here I can build a mission for the list. Let’s see, F4 was really not doing well, let’s have half the squad take transports. We’ll take some fuel, parts, and ordnance. Better take a load of troops, bet they’re short on those too. The other half can escort. Then from F4 we will now have the supplies to launch a raid on enemy forces in the area……***Sound of Sirens going off***  (Message pops up: )“Enemy raid just appearing on radar!!! They appear to be headed for Capitol City!! All available planes are directed to take off from Field 1 and head SE, Angels 15!!! You will be further directed once in the air….”

Damn I better get up there!!!
 


Offline Downtown

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Stategy thread #2
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 1999, 11:05:00 PM »
Yes!!!!!!

That is what I was saying, but you flushed out the Details!!!!!


That is what I want!!!!!

(I have several book ideas, we could be rich)

I would take time to do and morale would be trickiest.

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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG

Offline Flathat

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Stategy thread #2
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 1999, 08:51:00 AM »
Tincan and Bad Omen, that's a *great* set of ideas. Would you be too disappointed if they got implemented in version 2.0 or 3.0, after flight, gunnery & damage models get fairly thoroughly sorted out?

I would guess HTC will concentrate on the "basics" first and then work on expanding and enhancing the game experience through a more fully realized virtual world. I want them to succeed, and that will be best accomplished by eating the elephant one bite at a time instead of trying to take on too much too soon. Yes, at first it may be a lot (maybe too much) like other offerings, but if there's a good community and the promise of a better world in Two Weeks(tm)   , I think we'll have a real winner eventually. Then maybe they'll think about doing a WWI version   .

Flathat

[This message has been edited by Flathat (edited 08-06-1999).]

Bad Omen

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Stategy thread #2
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 1999, 11:36:00 AM »
I never figured anything close to what I envisioned would show up in the first release. Nor would I expect anything that elaborate all at once. But I sure would like to see the first semblance of a similar offering, i.e. with a beginning of a rudimentary transport system, by 2.0. Maybe no AI combat for awhile either, just the transport system.

Anyway, in summary, no I don't expect it all overnight. In Two Weeks(tm) would be fine.;-)

Bad Omen

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Stategy thread #2
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 1999, 12:25:00 PM »
Sending this back to the top to hopefully start some new constructive discussion. Posts lately have kind degenerated.