Deflection shooting

[cpxxx]

I'm sure this has been done to death somewhere else but I can't find it. I know about deflection shooting, leading the target etc and in real life I'm very good with a shotgun and clay pigeons but of late I have finally got the hang of latching onto the back of someone and reel him in like a wriggling trout but I still can't hit him unless he condescends to fly straight and level for a bit.

So my question is this: Can anyone tell me what the lead in say a max rate turn, is for some of the popular fighters out there. I know in real life in the spit it was neccessary to cover the target with the nose in order to hit it and I found the La7 is the same.

Can anyone give a rough idea, no need for graphs more rules of thumb, what kind of lead you need to use on the following:

I do realize it can vary with speed, rate of turn, cannons versus guns etc. But what do you use?

Spitfire
F4U
F6F
N1k
P38
FW
ME
etc

[Innominate]

I just make a wild guess.

Seriously though, there is no "automatic" lead.  You just need to get a feel for it.

Pull a bit more lead than you think you'll need, shoot, and let them fly through it.

[Soda]

I don't know that there is any one answer to your question as the factors involved are simply too numerous.  Every firing opportunity is going to be different so no one method works for me.  I typically try and evaluate the speed and angle of my target, but most importantly, the range.  In close (< D200), the travel time of fire is much shorter and aiming less of an issue.  Out past D600, the calculation of where to aim can get really "vague" and depends as much on the specifics of the ballistics of the guns as anything else.

If I could offer some tips, they would be:
- always try and get to short range, - try and unload your aircraft before you shoot (ie, stop maneuveirng yourself).  It helps with aiming (since you are not in motion) and with judging enemy motion.
- try and change shots that would be under your nose to where you can see the target.  Roll the aircraft a bit if necessary so you can get a left to right shot, for example, vs, someone coming from under your nose.
- fire infront of an aircraft and let them fly through the stream.

Other than that, it's more a feel thing.  Most people will find their firing ranges are simply too long, making for higher levels of adjustment in order to make a shot.  The easiest way to remedy this is to try and get closer and make aiming less of an issue.

-Soda
AH Trainer Corps.

[humble]

I think soda hit all the high notes...especially unloading your G's and trying to manuever so you maintain view vs "under the nose". I'll add 1 observation....often the best shot is the one not taken. Many times as you shoot you stop flying and actually end up in a worse position...or chew thu a large chunch of your clip. If you are in a neg E position or are going to lose your shot window then you should certainly take the shot you have...it might be your only one. However, if you are in control of the fight then the real goal is to use the right tactics to convert a snap shot to a tracking shot...hi and lo yoyo's Lag rolls and other tactics all are intended to correct AOA or closure issues to provide as optimal a shot profile as possible...most of us...myself included often chase a shot instead of flying the fight...if you fly the right fight...the shot at the end will be unmissable.

[MaddogJoe]

You can check The Mafia's "Aces High" help pages  The third from the bottom is "Air to Air Targeting. In it we give ya a simple yard stick to go by for getting hits. Check it out !  

Maddog Joe

[BigMax]

I almost never fire under high-G's... Ditto Soda... If you have time, to quote "Humble" maneuver first - shoot second.

The whole thing about High G shooting that we hunters don't take into consideration is our own relative motion...  Say you are shooting a bird from a standing position with time - simple shot, dead bird.  The problem with Aces High is that there are no stationary shots!  Shoot that same bird from the back of pick-up doing 60 - it gets a lot tougher.  Throw in the fact that whoever is driving is swerving to miss pot-holes and you get the "Hunter's Equivalent" to High-G shots.  Basically, account for your target's relative motion, your own motion, and the additional motion caused by the maneuvers themselves and it's easy...

It's a feel thing that the human computer works out on its own, IF you don't think about it to hard...

-Food for thought-

[medicboy]

A few other things to think about are gun convergence, and sights.   Most of the planes guns are default set to 200 convergence.  You can change this in the hanger using a button on the top of the clipboard.   A lot of people in here like a setting of around 300-400.   I set mine for 650, I don't usualy shoot at another plane until under 400-500, but I do alot of attacking gv's.  And waiting till you are under 400 from a gv is dangerous.

Another is sights.  The default sights kind of suck, there are tons of others available, try different ones and find one that "leads" you to a target.

I am happy to see you wait to get in close before pulling the trigger.  I see a lot of people burnning ammo when the target is 1k+ out.

[cpxxx]

Some very useful tips. Avoiding high g while firing is one I'll try. Also I seem to remember in a book by an RAF ace that he was always advised to centre the slip ball while firing which makes sense if you think about it, after all your convergence is based on the centre line of the fuselage  and any yaw must effect your impact point.

Getting in close too seems be the done thing, most aces got in really close.

Interestingly watching a documentary on TV last night, (Britain's Channel 4) last night on the Corsair, (my favourite fighter). One Marine pilot described how fired his tracer ahead of a Zero and 'walked' it back causing it to explode. That seems to be another way of getting around the deflection issue, albeit wasteful of ammunition.

[akak]

One of the hardest things I had to relearn when I moved from AW to AH was my gunnery skills.  In AW it was easy since we had an adjustable range site and it was easy to gauge the proper lead on the target, so gunnery was quite simple and easy.  AH was an entirely different matter.  After 6 months of playing, my gunnery hit percantage never went past 4% until Leviathn suggested that I turn off tracers in order to learn how to lead the target all over again.  Now my hit % fluctuates between 12-10%, while not great or good, it's a lot better than 4% and deflection shots are once more almost second nature to me.

Ack-Ack

[Tarmac]

I'll second what Akak said.  Try turning your tracers off.  It's not for everybody, but I like aiming without tracers much better than with them.  At close range, they're pretty useless anyway, cause I'm probably not going to miss.  And at longer range, I find that they actually screw up my depth perception and make it harder for me to hit.  

What kinds of planes do you fly?  I find it's easiest to learn how to go tracerless in a plane that has good weapons trajectories, such as .50 cals or hispanos.  But you could probably learn in anything.  Now that I'm used to it, I don't use tracers in anything except buffs and GVs.  

And besides, half the time my target doesn't know that I'm there until I start landing hits, at which point some important part of their plane is usually falling off.

[Virage]

go into training room.
turn on lead site.
practice.practice.practice.

[Elysian]

One thing that may be obvious but...

It is a lot easier to make a high deflection shot if the target is above rather than below your nose.  If possible, setup shots where your view of your target isn't obscured by your cockpit (or as little as possible).  Good roll rate plays into this as it allows you to more quickly shift your lift vector out of plane with your target, for example if you happen to be turning in plane with him and he is about to go under your nose.

[Mr. ED]

>>>A few other things to think about are gun convergence, and sights. Most of the planes guns are default set to 200 convergence. You can change this in the hanger using a button on the top of the clipboard. A lot of people in here like a setting of around 300-400. I set mine for 650, I don't usualy shoot at another plane until under 400-500,<<<

I fly only the Pony. I fly very fast (350-425), and only have seconds to shoot. I set my convergence at 200 for the inboard (4)guns and 250 for the outboard (2) guns.

Remember that this is the point where the guns intersect. At 400 and 500 they are again as wide as the gun mounts (wingspan).

I tap the outboards till they make contact, then pour on the other four.

A two second snapshot at 150 yards is all it takes to take out any fighter cept a few of the armor plated U.S. Navy planes. Which my Pony wasn't designed to kill any how.

"Full your windscreen with the enemy's plane and let her rip"  Top Brit Ace


>>>Another is sights. The default sights kind of suck, there are tons of others available, try different ones and find one that "leads" you to a target.<<<

Like I said I only use the P-51D, and its site is a dang good one. When your close, you don't need much lead.

>>> I see a lot of people burnning ammo when the target is 1k+ out.<<<

It's even better when its your con wasting his rounds that far out.

Mr.ED
327th ACG