Fw 190A-9

[wulfie]

Originally posted by MiloMorai
Was it not Green who started the myth of MG151s in the cowl of the Bf109K-4? One must also watch Green's books just like Nowarra's but not as carefully.

It wasn't Green's book really, it was an understandable and easy to make misassumption.

Alot of German aircraft guns were electrically fired. In alot of the later-war (probably '43+) German fighters you'd have a 'standard cable bunch' found near the rear of the engine in a Bf 109 for example. The 'standard cable bunch' would have leads (with descriptions) for all electrically fired weapons (i.e. MG 131, MG 151, MK 103, MK 108, etc.).

Basically, someone saw the wiring for MG 151/15s alongside wired MG 131s that were serving as cowling weapons, and made the assumption that MG 151/15s were an 'applicable option'. This could be the reason for some of the 'MK 103 spinner weapon' rumors as well.

Don't slam Green - the reason every mistake he made is so well known is because 80% of the books on LW aircraft over the next 20 years did no research of their own - they basically reworded what he wrote. This is a 'syndrome' of more than WW2 LW aircraft books as well.

I think there were some technical drawings that showed MG 151/15s as cowl weapons on one type of fighter or another as well, but these were prototype tech. drawings...nothing else.

Mike/wulfie

[Vermillion]

Another area where you have to be very very careful is when someone is referencing werk numbers.

The RLM and the factory assigned many blocks of werk numbers, to aircraft that were never built.  For example you might see information that XXX - XXX were Focke Wulf 190 E-57's (made up varient so it doesn't look like I'm pointing fingers.).  Then someone else references those "blocks of assigned werk numbers" and then starts quoting them as actual assigned werk numbers, which are entirely different.  I've seen that mistake several times in the past 8 years in these discussions.

[MANDOBLE]

Any idea about the number of 801TS produced?

[HoHun]

Hi Hazed,

>and the BMW 801F in this aircraft was eventually supplanted by a BMW 801TS which featured an improved and simplified master control, and an exhaust-driven super-charger.

Actually, the BMW801S engine (TS as complete engine assembly) did have a mechanically driven supercharger.

The turbo-supercharged engine was the BMW801J of which only few were built. It seems these engines mostly went into the Junker Ju 388.

>Im of the opinion that the internet is full of information which is highly dubious in nature.

Reschke's book "Jagdgeschwader 301/302 'Wilde Sau'" lists dozens of A-9 losses complete with Werknr., pilot, fate of the pilot, and cause and date of the loss.

>Until I see the original or at least a decent copy of it I'll stick with what i read in the books.At least theres some chance that these authors are controlled by the publishers and might be more truthfull.

Read "Focke Wulf Jagdflugzeug Fw 190A, Fw 190 'Dora', Fw 190, Ta 152H" by Peter Rodeike. He quotes 910 A-9s built.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[HoHun]

Hi Vermillion,

>Another area where you have to be very very careful is when someone is referencing werk numbers.

I spent 53 min (check the time stamps: 03-03-03 08:00 am and 08:53 am) cross-referencing the loss lists from Reschke's book with the Werknr. lists from Rodeike's book before I quoted the production figure.

They matched well, and I wouldn't have quoted it if it had been different.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[joeblogs]

My top list of this breed of books's is
Green (Germany)
Francillon (Japan)
Swanborough and Bowers (US Navy)
Swanborough (1909)

Haven't found a favorite for UK planes.

-Blogs

Originally posted by HoHun
Hi Hazed,

>These are 'Messerschmitt 109' and 'Russian Fighters 1920-41' by Heinz J. Nowarra. A couple of cheapies

My impression of Nowarra is that he has done only very sloppy research though he wrote a lot of books. There might be a few nuggets of good information in there, but they're buried beneath a heap of not-so-good information.

On the other hand, William Green's books are quite well researched considering their age! :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[joeblogs]

The real prejudice against radials was in the UK and in the US Airforce.  

This had to do in part because many engineers in the mid 1930s felt that a radial could not take as much supercharging as a liquid cooled engine (i.e. the deabte over the Curtiss Hawk).  By 1940 that gap had been nearly closed.

-Blogs

Originally posted by hazed-
wulfie is this guy an amature historian? as in is he published? not being picky but this part of the write up got me remembering a kurt tank interveiw:

'RLM management was dominated by in-line water-cooled engines adherents, who did not share his vision of the new project'

and this is what kurt tank says in a 1975 interview quoted in a book called:
Focke wulfe fw190 in combat by alfred price isbn 0-7509-2548-5

'Some have suggested that i had to fight a battle with the German Air Ministry to get them to accept the idea of radial engined fighter.That might make a good story but it is not history.In fact there was quite a large body of official opinion in favour of such a fighter for the Luftwaffe.'

A lot of older books say this kind of thing, makes you wonder if they are correct in their information.
also the newer books dont seem to mention the 190a-9 as being in production and id really like to know who is right. Damn annoying isnt it! who knows maybe the 190a9 was produced in great numbers without this armoured wing leading edge but it makes you wonder why it isnt in all the books.