Author Topic: North Korea Follows Interception with Threat  (Read 1488 times)

Offline Fishu

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North Korea Follows Interception with Threat
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2003, 01:50:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 10Bears
Maybe the Swedes can send over their navy..


Better not.. their boats would probably be sunk somewhere in atlantic.

After all australians are quite peed off at poor swede subs they bought.

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2003, 01:51:25 PM »
Taiwan would kick the toejam out of China in a conventional war.  Probably liberate half the damned country before Russia threw itself into the meat grinder.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Toad

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« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2003, 02:03:49 PM »
Wolf, I managed to dodge all the 6SW assignements that came down.  :D

Never flew the S.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Wlfgng

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« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2003, 02:42:06 PM »
that was my baby...and the V model.

hated 15 hour missions though...   snore

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2003, 03:07:22 PM »
Hortlund: There are 6 carriers in the Gulf/Med right now (well 5 really, but one arriving soon) I dont know how many of those you guys have, but I'm betting at least two would be needed for Taiwan, and another two for S Korea.

 Carriers are only good against such backward countries as Afghanistan and Iraq. We may want to use them as airfields from far away with in-air refueling, but I hope we do not risk them within a few hundred miles from a real conflict area. In this age antiship missles are cheap, effective and launched in quantities from a couple hundred miles at the altitude of a few feet would make a mincemeat out of any large ship. I am not even talking about underwater nukes.

 The carriers are the same kind of expencive scam perpetrated on the US public by military as building balttleships was just before WWII when aviation have already made them obsolete.

 miko

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2003, 03:15:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
Carriers are only good against such backward countries as Afghanistan and Iraq. We may want to use them as airfields from far away with in-air refueling, but I hope we do not risk them within a few hundred miles from a real conflict area. In this age antiship missles are cheap, effective and launched in quantities from a couple hundred miles at the altitude of a few feet would make a mincemeat out of any large ship. I am not even talking about underwater nukes.

 The carriers are the same kind of expencive scam perpetrated on the US public by military as building balttleships was just before WWII when aviation have already made them obsolete.

 miko


I dont think I agree. The idea would be to position the carriers on the east side of Taiwan, and not in the actual straights. Two of those carriers have more aircraft than the entire airforce of many nations, and those aircraft are better than anything the Chinese have too...and if push comes to shove, they have nukes too. You should not underestimate the kind of power projection one or two carriers present. And if you include their battle groups too...I kid you not I think two carrier battle groups could defeat the entire Chinese airforce.

Offline Frogm4n

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« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2003, 03:20:30 PM »
why the hell would russia back the chinese in anything. you living in the cold war era still yeager?

Offline Toad

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« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2003, 04:35:10 PM »
If nukes are a viable option for the opposition with multiple delivery capabilities, I think CV groups are quite vulnerable.

And the Chinese do have multiple delivery capability.

This is definitely one of those areas that would get out of hand almost immediately.

If the Chinese feel they have no option but to nuke a CV group, the US response to that is going to be predictable. It'a place nobody wants to go.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2003, 05:01:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
We should've let MacArthur go all the way to the Yalu when we had the chance.

Same thing about Stormin' Norman and Baghdad.


sorry gf, but Mac got kicked almost to the sea when he went too far. check it out.

Offline Soda

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« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2003, 05:22:27 PM »
My understanding was that the Chinese were actually a little pissed at the North K these days.  I guess the economic situation in the North had gotten so bad that some "guerilla" style raids have actually occurred across the border area.  Apparantly some North Koreans came across and stole food/supplies...

The Chinese still don't have the transport capacity to really invade Taiwan either, nor did they have a distinct advantage in controlling the straight between the two countries.  With a US carrier group close by it was anticipated that the Chinese would have a difficult time pressing home just about anything.  They have the numbers, but are a little low on quality still.  You can shoot all the Silkworm anti-ship missiles you want out into the straight, but you have to have some idea as to where to aim within a couple of miles or so.

Not saying the Chinese couldn't do it, if they were REALLY serious, but they still might lose...  They have enough internal issues anyway.

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The Assassins.

Offline RightF00T

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« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2003, 05:22:48 PM »
Anyone seen the new Popular Science with the cover story on floating air bases?  Seems like a great idea if they can get it to work.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2003, 05:26:41 PM »
and then UN forces pushed the Chinese back to the 38th and a political decision was made not to press on North the second time. All the while, Chinese aircraft based North of the Yalu were immune from attack at their bases and the huge supply depots on the other side of the Yalu were immune as well. Sound familiar?

Final Battles and Wars End
Quote


The Chinese began their offensive on the 22nd of April and pushed 8th army units back a ways. But Ridgeway had done his job well,and the line steadied and held. After inflicting heavy casualties on the Chinese 8th Army started an offensive of their own a month later. It was started with a tremendous artillery barrage and the Communists started a retreat.Its been estimated that the Chinese lost 200,000 men in the six months leading up to and including this failed attack. Russia now called for a cease fire and the Chinese let it be known that they would like one too. At the end of June Ridgeway said he would be willing to discuss a cease fire. The Chinese agreed and on July 10th,1951 peace talks began in the town of Kaesong (in communist hands) Hopes were high, but it would be two more bloody years before the shooting would stop. In the meantime, new battle names, such as "Bloody Ridge", "Heartbreak Ridge,"and "Pork Chop Hill" would make their way into the annals of the U.S. military.

The lst Marine Division, in an area known as the "Iron Triangle" (between Chorwon,KumHwa, and PyongYang) bore the brunt of the April 22nd offensive. (the 5th such offensive in the war thus far) The 5th Marines were left stranded when the ROK Division on their flank fled as soon as the shooting started. The regiment had to swing their line around to cover this flank and were able to stand their ground. Two days later they had to pull back aways, but not before inflicting extremely heavy casualties on the attackers, breaking the momemtum of the assault. On the Imjim River,the British 29th Brigade took a savage mauling,but inflicted even moire casualties on the Chiese before retreating.

Despite the failings of this major attack, the Chinese sent 30 more divisions (including 9 newly manned North Korean Divisions) against the U.N. Force on May 15th, 1951. Most of the ROK divisions fled but the U.S. 2nd Division held despite suffering almost 1,000 casualties. The 38th Infantry was hit again and again on the night of May 16th and were still in their positions when the sun came up.There were hundCommunists of dead Chinese in front of their lines at day break. The U.S. 3rd Division and the 187th RCT (Airborne) filled in the gap left by the ROK's and the Chinese were stymied. This offensive had cost them 90,000 men by U.N. estimate.

On May 22nd Van Fleet started a counter attack. The lst marine Division and the 187th RCT reached the Hwachon Resevoir (this supplied Seoul water and electrical power) and I Corps regained the Imjim River line previously held by the British 29th Brigade.

The Communists were badly mauled and Van Fleet started another limited offensive. "Operation Pile Driver" regained Chorwon and Kumwha, and X Corps cleared all enemy from a heavily fortified area called "the Punch bowl." In any of our previous wars the way to victory would now be evident, but the U.N. didn't want complete victory in 1951. It only wanted the old border of the 38th parallel re established.

By August the truce talks at Kaesong were called off when it became evident that the Communists were just stalling and trying to get every concession from the U.N. that they could. It now also became evident that the Communists used this time to fortify their positions and bring up more artillery while the U.N. forces remanied in the status quo. This foolhardy trusting of the Communists would lead to more American deaths.


The Hwachon Resevoir was ringed by heights that would be aptly called "Bloody Ridge" and "Heartbreak Ridge." American and Chinese troops would fight over these hills continously from Summer to October 1951. Finally the 2nd Division, after much bloodshed, took the heights for good, dealing the Chinese a severe defeat.

8th Army was now almost 20 miles above the parallel and the Chinese called for another round of truce talks. The U.N. agreed but only if they took place at a neutral site,and on October 25th.1951 the talks resumed at Panmonjom.

Van Fleet was ordered not to start any offensives except local attacks no larger than batallion size. Once more the Communists would use the talks as an opportunity to bolster their defenses. From now on, thousands of men on both sides would die taking or defending a hill that would change the tactical situation very little. These men would die only to give one side or the other a bargaining chip at the conference table. The mode of fighting would now closely resemble the trench warfare of WWl.



Interesting read; if you read it, let me know and we can argue over that assessment.  :D
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Frogm4n

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« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2003, 11:54:58 PM »
man this is a good laugh, chinese invading taiwan, russians getting involved. boy you guys have some imaginations. If you have ever been over to china you would understand all they care about is makeing cash and having a little respect internationally. They are not an aggresive country unless you treat them like crap.

Offline Erlkonig

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« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2003, 12:12:08 AM »
Frogman, is that quote in your sig genuine?  I would've guessed it was something Dubya said if it weren't such a convoluted yet nuanced statement.

Offline Frogm4n

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