Author Topic: Model Rocket Hobby Killed by Homeland Security  (Read 1071 times)

Offline Dowding

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Model Rocket Hobby Killed by Homeland Security
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2003, 02:48:14 AM »
The lack of outrage seems... strange. This is surely akin to suddenly introducing the compulsory licensing of firearms. But since it isn't guns, it's a 'neccessary restriction'...
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Ping

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Model Rocket Hobby Killed by Homeland Security
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2003, 04:50:58 AM »
Pretty soon The US will be as absurd as Canada with Laws like those.
I/JG2 Enemy Coast Ahead


Offline lazs2

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Model Rocket Hobby Killed by Homeland Security
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2003, 08:17:22 AM »
the BATF are as bad in some ways as the EPA but much worse in others... nothing good to say about either group.  
lazs

Offline Toad

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Model Rocket Hobby Killed by Homeland Security
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2003, 11:11:27 AM »
They'll get this fixed.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Scootter

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Model Rocket Hobby Killed by Homeland Security
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2003, 01:38:11 PM »
I like the Ban on rental trucks idea as one of them was actually used in OK.

 I hunt with black powder (can I say that, is it PC or is it colored powder) Guess I need to stock up now.  

Now that I think about my reloading primers ARE explosive! ...crap  


gota stock up!!    course then I may show up on the radar screen


what to do ...what to do

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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Model Rocket Hobby Killed by Homeland Security
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2003, 03:07:41 PM »
Gasoline tanks are explosives, so are propane tanks... are they gonna require background checks next time you wanna grill outdoors or gas up your lawnmower?

Someone seriously needs to whack these people running these departments with a 8ft steel composite reality check.
-SW

Offline MrLars

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Model Rocket Hobby Killed by Homeland Security
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2003, 03:19:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Scootter



what to do ...what to do


Stock up on the primers and powder but do it slowly. Not that gun shops will report it but there's no reason to take chances at becoming an interest to the ATF or DHS in these times.

I wonder when buying gunpowder will become hard to do after reading this thread. I can make a < insert a benign name for a device that goes BOOM here incase big brother is watching > much easier with gunpowder than with a toy rocket motor.

Offline Wlfgng

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Model Rocket Hobby Killed by Homeland Security
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2003, 03:30:10 PM »
Creamo.  it seems like people are over-reacting to this issue.  That's why I posted.

Are you saying all this stuff because you THINK it'll come down like that.. or because you KNOW it will?

Personally, if it's just background checks and stuff I don't see the harm.  In fact, I'm really interested in the sport and would love to be involved.
If it's like the increased checks at airports.. you know, the ones that everyone was so panicked about before they were implemented, then wooo.. big deal.  It turned out to be not such a big deal.

if, in fact, things turn out as dark and dreary as you protray.. then I'd gladly side with the nay-sayers.

till then I'm being a bit more realistic.

Offline Fishu

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Model Rocket Hobby Killed by Homeland Security
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2003, 03:43:02 PM »
I think they're scared of model rockets being turned into mini ballistic missiles :D


BREAKING NEWS: A model rocket destroyed windowscreen, suspected as a terrorist strike.

Offline Wlfgng

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Model Rocket Hobby Killed by Homeland Security
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2003, 03:50:36 PM »
some of the model rockets I've seen are incredible.

dunno about balistic missiles but they sure are friggin awesome.
I've been wanting to get into it.  Was into the little Estes stuff as a kid but wish I could get into the 'serious' rocketry that exists today.

Offline Hangtime

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Model Rocket Hobby Killed by Homeland Security
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2003, 05:05:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Hangtime you run a hobby shop?


yup. i handle hobby items. and this legislation sucks wazoo.

send me an email if yah want more info Gurn.. yer email is turned off.
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Offline Wlfgng

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Model Rocket Hobby Killed by Homeland Security
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2003, 05:23:30 PM »
hang.. please send me that info.... time to get informed I suppose

Offline Hangtime

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Model Rocket Hobby Killed by Homeland Security
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2003, 05:41:13 PM »
HOUSTON -- A provision deep within the regulations of the new Homeland Security Act is threatening to shut down the popular hobby of model rocketry because the propellant used to make the rocket's solid-fueled motors is now classified as explosive material.

The change in status, approved in November 2002 as an update to the Safe Explosives Act of 1970, imposes new restrictions on shipping and handling the rocket motors, which have been safely flown by thousands of students for many years.  
 
Under the new rules, which fully take effect May 24, shipping companies are required to have every employee who might touch the rocket motors be certified, pass background checks and get fingerprinted -- an added expense the companies are unlikely to bear.

United Parcel Service already has stopped shipping the more powerful versions of model rocket engines, according to Tim Van Milligan, president of Apogee Rockets in Colorado Springs, Colo.

There also are reports that some trucking and railroad firms have stopped shipping the motors, and Fed Ex employees have indicated to some model rocket flyers they likely will follow suit in the coming weeks.

"It is the heart of the problem we face. Because if manufacturers like Estes can't get rocket motors delivered to stores, the hobby is completely dead," Van Milligan said.

U.S. Senator Michael Enzi, R-Wyo., intends to introduce legislation as early as this week to make what's being called a "technical correction" to the Safe Explosives Act so that the material used inside the small motors is removed from the "explosives list."

"Congress defined an explosive as any chemical mixture or device whose primary or common purpose is to function by explosion," Enzi wrote to Bradley Buckles, director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF).

"I am told that the ATF claims that the primary or common purpose of a rocket propellant is to explode. A rocket propellant is not designed or intended to explode," Enzi said.

The model rocket scientists-turned-lobbyists are quick to point out that if model rocket engines are designed to explode under the definition used by the ATF, no rocket would get off the ground. It would just blow up on the pad.

SPACE.com contacted the ATF and left messages but no one returned the calls. When informing one unnamed assistant of the topic, she said "we've been getting a lot of calls on the subject of model rockets."

Model rocket hobbyists of all ages are preparing to fire off faxes, e-mails, letters and phone calls to Capitol Hill to support Enzi's efforts. And they lined up quickly to tell SPACE.com what they thought of the current law.

Jay Apt saw his first model rocket catalog at age 13 in 1962. If the name's familiar it's because he went on to fly four shuttle missions that included two spacewalks and a mission to the International Space Station.

"If we are to keep challenging our technology-inclined young people, we need to keep the benefits of model rocketry in mind when we pursue a tendency, natural in troubled times, to restrict anything which might be abused," Apt said.

"It makes no more sense to restrict aerospace modeling than it would have to ban rental trucks after they were misused in Oklahoma and New York."

There are ways to continue flying model rockets under the current law, but they involve applying for permits, paying a fee, undergoing a background check and getting finger printed.

"Model rocketeers are not criminals and this law treats them like one. How would you like your kids to be finger printed just to fly rockets?" said Van Milligan, who went through what he described as a "difficult" process.

For the space modeling enthusiasts, the actions of the government make no sense, especially at a time when the nation is recovering from the Feb. 1 shuttle Columbia tragedy and kids of all ages are asking questions about the value of such programs.

"Because of increasing legal restrictions, a lack of understanding about model rocketry's excellent safety record, and a general bias against hobby rocketry, it is becoming extremely difficult to get the permits and launch sites needed to expose these young people to the educationally stimulating and inspirational effects of rocketry," said Craig Cline, senior adviser of the Alhambra Rocketry Club in Los Angeles.

"Our country's leadership needs to encourage and protect, not stifle, the ability of the public and our youth to engage in the activities and pursuit of knowledge that have allowed us to become the world leader in scientific advancement."

http://www.space.com
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

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Offline Creamo

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Model Rocket Hobby Killed by Homeland Security
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2003, 12:20:44 PM »
SOB asked, and for Wlfgn, yeah, they get 'incredible', just go see this guys website.

J. Coker

It's amazing what a guy can do when he doesn't buy a suit of armour and builds a rocket instead! (inside joke)

Here's my first attempt at a high powered rocket, finally after alot of time completed this month.


 


I had a guy at work paint it, and when he brought it in to deliver it, lotsa guys at work that launched plenty of Estes rockets as kids were as impressed as i was. He did a really nice job. It was a good PR as well to get their kids over to my house this weekend to do some Estes stuff, and hopefully turn them onto this great hobby.

Whether the ATF will regulate the hobby to exstinction is yet to be seen. But in the mean time, anyone remotley interested in R/C aircraft or remember Estes rockets as kids, ought to venture into rocketry. It's a riot.

Offline Wlfgng

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Model Rocket Hobby Killed by Homeland Security
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2003, 01:21:46 PM »
I'm so there this summer...
that's just the toejam if you ask me!

sweet!


here's hoping the hobby isn't killed off!!!!
(downing a quick beer)