What about a bit more of diversity

[Karnak]

MANDOBLE,

You missed my point.

[wetrat]

Urch, if he wasn't a hypocrite, I'd side with him

[Mini D]

I think a person complaining about the types of planes he is killing is pretty damn funny.

MiniD

[MwCaps]

I like the 3-4 perk idea

[lazs2]

I don't care about score and.... I don't fly any of the planes that people want perked and..... I don't have any trouble killing any of the planes on the kweassa "let's make the unworkable perk idea even more silly" plan...  

And... I don't care what people fly they should be able to fly anything inthe arena in AH but...

early war planes shouldn't have their fun ruined by late war ones.  Late war planes shouldn't be able to cherry pick and early war planes shouldn't have to fly late war distances to the fight.  

so.. we need an small area with filelds a little less than a sector apart, carved out of the hidious pizza and infiniy late war centric abortions that only allows early war planes to take off.  

everyone can then just fly whatever they like against like minded pilots and they can do it all in the same arena and switch seemlessley to whatever type of fight they want from the tower.
lazs
l

[thrila]

Thrila, I indicated 26 spits, not the mark (IX + V + Seafire).

Ah now i understand Mandoble, you don't wanna perk the spit IX, you wanna perk ALL spits.


If you're gonna add up all version of a plane for spitfire you're gonna have to do it to other planes too.  If you add up the total kills for the 190 this tour so far 7502 (d9) + 3486 (a8) + 3358 (a5) + 377 (f8) = 14723.  The n1k only has 11217 kills, looks like the 190 getting overused now- it even has more kills than the la7 13889 kills.  If you're gonna complain about the la7 and n1k being overused maybe you should look at the 190 (all these stats are from inno's stats page).


My point is you can't lob all the spits different mk's together. You're gonna have to accept that the different mk's of spits perform differently and should be treated as individual planes.

[bockko]

________________
My case this tour:
31 La7 kills
26 spit kills
26 n1k2 kills

Next is P51 with 12 and then A6M5 with 8, rest well below that
________________

funny, all those kill in a d9 -- the way i read mandoble's post is he wants more diversity in everyone else, otherwise I would expect to see his kills spread out among many other planes, but all d9 kills? The whole diversity point of this thread in baseless.

out

[MANDOBLE]

Thrila, number kills are not representative of overusage, deaths are. If not enough clear, you can take off and kill 0 or more planes, but for a single sortie you can dead only once. Now make your maths using deaths instead of kills for the previous 4 tours. And about spit performance, IX and V perform the same for me, a bit faster IX and a bit better turner the V, but basically are the same with different colours.

BNM, I dont know even who you are or what you fly or how you fly, it is curious that you know how I get the kills better than me. If I bounced and killed you some time, better improve your SA (u know, SA is part of the game).

Wetrat, P38 is far easier than any 190 for this MA (900 yards kill capability included) and, in any case, do you mean that flying P38/P40/C202 I will see less spits/La7/N1K2? LOL

bockko, diversity is not depending only on what do you fly, it is also depending on what panes you fly against. As an example in another environment, imagine an rol game with only 3 different enemy types, but you can choose everything you want about your player (race,etc), funny game, right?

[Mini D]

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
bockko, diversity is not depending only on what do you fly, it is also depending on what panes you fly against. As an example in another environment, imagine an rol game with only 3 different enemy types, but you can choose everything you want about your player (race,etc), funny game, right?

You really need to read this back to yourself Mandoble.

Who the hell are you talking too?  Everyone else?

MiniD

[Urchin]

Mandoble, the P38 is a few order of magnitudes tougher to fly in the MA than any 190.  It is just a couple mph faster than the Spit IX, doesn't accelerate as well as a 190, and it is a HUGE target.

DJ- I understand the 'diversity starts with YOU' stuff you (and a few others are saying), but Mandoble's got an equally valid point when he says that what he flies won't have any impact at all on the numbers of spits/la7s/n1ks/p51s in the arena.  He'll just die more since he is in a slower plane.  

I'm at the point where I just want to know the total number of sorties that each model flies... it seems like at least 75% of the planes that I see are one of the 'big 4'.  Possibly that is because of that free trial going on now, I don't know.  It comes down to really 3 choices.  If you want to be on 'even footing' with everyone else, you fly one of the big 4.  If you want to be able to get away from spits and n1ks, but not fly a P51 or La7, you usually fly the german stuff.  If you want to get dominated, you fly something else.

P47, P38, P40, F6F, Fm2/F4F, the early german planes, ki-61, well, actually just about everything other than the 109G10 and 190D9 are kind of outmatched in the MA.  

A P38 isn't fast enough to catch a P51 or La7, so they can bore N zoom you at will.  It doesn't turn well enough to fight a Spit IX or N1K2 (plus it really isn't fast enough to get away from one), so you get screwed there too.  Same with the rest of the list above- nobody but a masochist would even try to fly those planes unless they are comfortably tucked in with a horde that outnumbers the enemy.

109G10 and 190D9 are very competitive in the MA, which is why they are a good choice for people that don't want to fly the 'dweeb rides', but don't want to get dominated by them either.

Anyway, that spiel really had no point at all, so I'll shut up now.

[bockko]

So Mandoble, let me see if I understand your point: you would prefer to encounter a much wider mix of the planes available in the game. Also, due to the models you encounter (lala, 51 etc) you fly a plane that gives you a fighting chance when on fighter missions. I hope I am near the mark.

I don't know how HT could put in place a diversity plan without upsetting those who have their favorite rides. While it would be nice to see many more models in action, I personally don't want a complex perk plan dropped on me. Part of the draw of the game is being able to hop into a popular plane (or, more specifically, your ride of choice) and go mix it up.

Of course, unperking the spit xiv .........now that's a good idea

later, bockk

[muckmaw]

Can't we solve both Lazs' and Mandobles problems in one fell swoop (tm).

Now, I'm not being rude. I need to know why a prek system that is used across the board will not work?

You perk everything BUT the most early war stuff. So Lazs gets his early war fights more often. Mandoble gets his diversity.

Problem solved, no? Of course not. Nothing is that simple.

You start evert tour with 500 perks....or whatever is reasonable, plus whatever perks you've earned to date. The veterans get to burn up all those perks they have been saving up, and the newbies get to fly the hot rides until they run out of their perk allowance, or they learn how to survive. Plus we eliminate the Pork and Auger group.

Would this affect me? Sure would. I fly the F6F and the FM2 mostly. If I run out of perks, I have to the the F4F...which is....not good to say the least. Will I logoff? Cancel my account? Hell no, I love a challenge! I would bust my bellybutton to rebuild my perk base and get my Hellcat back.

I know this has been proposed before. I just can't remember why everyone hated it.

To summerize:

Perk all but the earliest, least capable war planes. Everyone gets a perk allowance st the start of the tour. Those with perks get to keep them and use them. Run out of perks? Fly the weaker planes. Land your kills, you get to keep your hot ride.

Comments? And can we keep it civil?

[wetrat]

LOL mandoble... surely you don't believe the P-38 is easier to fly than a dora? The P-38 is slow, a huge target, average turn radius, average acceleration, slightly above average climb rate. The dora is fast, small, slightly below average turn radius, above average acceleration, well above average climb rate (on WEP).

The P-38 is better than a dora 1 vs 1. Do you know how often I find 1 vs 1's in an MA filled with runners in doras, mustangs, and la7's?

[wetrat]

Originally posted by bockko
Of course, unperking the spit xiv .........now that's a good idea

No, it really isn't. The spit XIV is perked for very good reason.

[Urchin]

Never happen Muck.  New players need the 'uber rides' to compete (or at least they think they do).  Plus it will drive away at least some customers, which I doubt HTC would ever do voluntarily.  

A lot of the U.S. stuff we have is 1944 or later also.. even the P-51B was introduced in early 1944.  Think the D-11 was as well, but that might have gotten in in late '43.  P-38L is 1944 also.  La5FN, Yak-9U, maybe even the Yak-9T are '44.  Even the N1K2 is a 1944 plane.

So they either say "ok, the MA is now 1943 level, so all the USAAF and VVS planes are perked", or they say "well, it is 1943 level for planes that have a 1943 varient, if not then the 1944 planes are in".

In which case everyone that flies the P-51D and La-7 switch to whatever the fastest plane available is (probably the P-51B, maybe the Yak-9U if it isnt perked) and instead of seeing 10% of the MA (at a minimum, I think it is higher personally) in the P-51d, La-7, Spit IX, and N1K2, we see 20% in the Spit IX and 20% in whatever the new 'best fast plane' is.

The only way we are going to get 'more diversity' (that means anything anyway) would be to introduce the Ki-84 and any other 'super planes' that haven't been introduced yet.  Any plane that has a significant performance advantage over the rest of the plane-set will get significant use.

EDIT:  I'd be in favor of unperking the F4U-4, Spit XIV, and Ta-152... they don't offer any significant advantages over the P-51D/La-7 in my opinion, and that would be another way to 'increase diversity'.  

I guess it just isn't evident to some people, but the vast majority of people will *never* (and I mean ever) attempt to fight on 'even' terms in any case.  Even in a case where they have absolutely nothing to lose (like... a video game like AH).  People will *always* grab at any advantage they can.  It is just as  obvious in any other game..  in practically every 'mmorpg' there is a 'best' class (or 'flavor of the month', depending on which classes got nerfed this time around).  That class is the 'favorite' not because people love its historical significance, or they grew up dreaming to be a XXX (you go ahead and translate that into AH-ese, it isn't tough) but because it is the BEST CLASS.  Most reward for littlest effort.  It is human nature, can't be changed.