ok... if we can't make early planes usable...

[lazs2]

tee dog... there were probly more f8 bearcats made thatn dee 9's the problem was that they flew around unmolested... they weren't strafed the second they left... or started to be built... at the factory... truth is... there might be a couple dozen dee 9's to that actually "saw combat" in the conventional sense....  If a jap plane woulda straffed vf 19's carrier then I guess the bearcat woulda "seen combat... hardly much of a distinction for inclusion inthe game.
lazs

[Squire]

Why not just add the Ki-84?

[Shiva]

Originally posted by llyr69
Combat use has little or nothing to do with what planes are selected for inclusion in AH.

 I believe it's more related to filling a "niche" in the arena.

All right, then... Precisely what 'niche' would the Bearcat be filling? Sitting on the apron with all the other 'if only we'd gotten it into production faster' planes watching pilots flying the planes that did see use in the war?

[Wlfgng]

bring the bearcat to the MA... why not?

it's all about fantasy anyway and would be a blast to fly

for the "other" arenas I doubt it would work as far as balancing goes

[lord dolf vader]

i believe somone once posted that the f8 and la7 had very very close stats. turn speed clime were all real real close.

if we can handle a 3 cannon la7 ad f8 dosent seem excesive. even at a cheap perk.

[Magoo]

We get the planes that HT decides to give us. I'm sure for good reasons most of the time. I'm willing to bet there's no set criteria though. How else do you explain the absence of the P39, of which over 9,000 were made? Heck just add it to the game with Russian markings

Of course far be from us to be grateful for such a wonderful game...I propose that we invoke our will on HTC "Airheads" style (the movie).  We get some real looking water pistols and storm the HTC studios, DEMANDING them to model the planes we want! I mean how else am I going to get the CommonWealth Boomerang added to the game?

Magoo

[Karnak]

Originally posted by lazs2
tee dog... there were probly more f8 bearcats made thatn dee 9's the problem was that they flew around unmolested... they weren't strafed the second they left... or started to be built... at the factory... truth is... there might be a couple dozen dee 9's to that actually "saw combat" in the conventional sense....  If a jap plane woulda straffed vf 19's carrier then I guess the bearcat woulda "seen combat... hardly much of a distinction for inclusion inthe game.
lazs

Lazs,

Are you getting the Fw190D-9 and Ta152 mixed up?  Your description fits the Ta152, but not the Fw190D-9.  Fw190D-9s saw lots of combat in the traditional sense.  There were 700 Fw190D-9s built and they saw heavy useage.

[lazs2]

I don't think so... I know some d9's saw a lot of use but most were destroyed on the ground.

In my opinion... there were at least that many F8's flying around in the hands of squdrons before the war ended it was just that taking off from a field in America did not mean that you would be in combat.    They flew.. the stats for them are very well published... they were tested much more than the d9 ever was and stats are probly much more complete and accurate.   I also don't think that any game that has an unperked d9 or unperked p51 would be unbalanced by an unperked F8.
lazs

[Ripsnort]

Reverse psychology only works on children Lazs...nice try though!

[GScholz]

Originally posted by lazs2
tee dog... there were probly more f8 bearcats made thatn dee 9's the problem was that they flew around unmolested... they weren't strafed the second they left... or started to be built... at the factory... truth is... there might be a couple dozen dee 9's to that actually "saw combat" in the conventional sense....  If a jap plane woulda straffed vf 19's carrier then I guess the bearcat woulda "seen combat... hardly much of a distinction for inclusion inthe game.
lazs

Well, if you're considering "strafed on carrier" as enough to qualify then "bombed in factory" should qualify as well. Just think of the Dora numbers then.

Yes, yes, I know what you meant, but 650-700 Dora's saw frontline service. First flight was in late 1942, and the Luftwaffe took first delivery in August 1944. THAT qualifies the Dora as a WWII fighter.

[GScholz]

Puuuurdy ....

[J_A_B]

If you can make a case for adding the F8F, than you can make an equally good case for adding the P-51H  


The FM2 isn't really an early-war plane either since it didn't enter production until mid 1943 or see action until January 1944, making it a contemporary of the P-51B.    


While I agree that the early planes should have a separate place to be flown free from the later models, I also realize that such a place would still have the problems associated with the MA (ganging, running, etc).  A P-40E isn't going to dogfight with a Zero any more than a P-51D is going to dogfight an N1K2.


J_A_B

[AtmkRstr]

Originally posted by Karnak
The Spitfire Mk XIV already meets you're requirements lazs.  It can't run so it has to fight.

It can run. Maybe you're running in the wrong direction.

[lazs2]

well... in WB they came up with a "generations" idea.  the rps they had was not so much year of introduction... which causes a LOT of controversy... but, it was based on "ability"... parity so to speak.   this also added contoversy.  

I believe that my area arena concept would work and the way to decide what planes went in what arena would have to do with top speed.   you could define "early war" by the top speed.   The FM2 would make the cut but not the 51b  The FM2 could easily be a substitute for the f4f-3..  the -3 actually performed slightly better.   Add the dash 3.

If you get planes in the same area with the same top speeds you will have a lot of parity.

why do we perk the 262?   a pee 51 or dee 9 can easily "dodge" it and... the 262 was in service the same time as the 51 or dee 9.... even earlier depending on how ya figure.

really... those who see no problem with pee 51's and dee 9's in the same arena as spit ones and wildcats.... how do you justify perking any plane, much less the 262?
lazs

[vorticon]

if people feel like running from a fight then returning when the person they want dead is busy with something else they can but if that person is in a early war plane they better not be hoping for a easy kill...earlky war planes are great for dogfighting late war planes are good for bnz and E fighting...whatever that is...sped a little time with the 262 in a full dogfight enviroment youll find yourself outclassed by people in hurri2c's yaks and even a6m2's

in the MA its and i qoute "about speed and altitude not abpout guns or turnability or low stall speeds and good compression recovery"

late war planes normally have fairly high stall speeds (110-120) while early war planes can have as low a stall sped as 80 normally 90-100...wich is good if you can suckera person in a "uber" late war plane into a proper dogfight rather than passes...


take a look at p51's armament 4 .50 caliber mgs look at 262's 2 20mm cannons (hard to aim) and possibly some 30mm's even harder (cant quite remember)

now take a look at earlier war planes

mostly a combo of lots of low caliber mg's and 20mm cannons combined with greater manouverability lower stall speeds and bigger guns

early war planes are usable you just have to know HOW to use them successfully in the MA's enviroment