General Ali Hassan al-Majid

[air_guard]

is one of the mad generals saddam has pointed out to defend the southern Iraqi border
He was also the brain of using chemicals on the kurdiand people in north of Iraq as we remember.

hope he goes first in the attack.

[Rasker]

with the attack coming from the south, I'm sure he will .  The Shiites might take him and "trade" him to the Kurds for a butcher to be named later

[air_guard]

hehe hope so

[babek-]

Originally posted by air_guard
is one of the mad generals saddam has pointed out to defend the southern Iraqi border
He was also the brain of using chemicals on the kurdiand people in north of Iraq as we remember.

hope he goes first in the attack.

Yes - this man is indeed interesting.

He not only used the chemical attacks which killed thousands of kurds including those in Halabja but also against the iranian army.

125000 iranian soldiers died because of these gas weapons.


But now the disturbing infos:

1st: The gas weapons were delivered by the so called civilized nations inluding UK, Germany, France and the USA to Saddam who was a friend in those days against the bad guy Iran.

2nd: When the Kurds protested about the massacre of Halabja the attack was justified because the iraqui kurds fought during the Iran-Iraq-War for Iran.

3rd: When Iran brought the case to the UN because the Treaty of Geneva does not allow the use of chemical weapons it was the USA which puts in the Veto - so Saddam couldnt be blamed.


Only some facts about the monster-general.

Maybe you should think about the definition for the people and nations who gave them the weapons and protected them so efficiently after they used them to butcher civilians...

[ra]

Maybe you should think about the definition for the people and nations who gave them the weapons and protected them so efficiently after they used them to butcher civilians...

Those same nations gave lots of weapons to Josef Stalin at one point.  That's the way the world is, very messy.

ra

[Cobra]

Originally posted by babek-

Maybe you should think about the definition for the people and nations who gave them the weapons and protected them so efficiently after they used them to butcher civilians...

Babek,
Yes we should, including Germany's actions since 1991 towards Iraq.

Now that we've each played the blame game, what is wrong with correcting that situation now?

You agree it is horrible and that we all played a role in making Saddam what he is today, so what is wrong with all of us playing a role and correcting that horrible mistake from our collective pasts?

[air_guard]

well if a drunken driver kills somebody, they should throw the reseller of the car  in jail ?

[babek-]

@airguard -

You really compare someone who sells a car with someone who sells GAS WEAPONS ????

What do you expect gas weapons are made for ? To use them as a deodorant or against other people?

@ cobra

If there would be a correction of the situation I would agree with a war.

But the example Afghanistan has shown us that there will not be any democracy or help for the "liberated" people.

Today Afghanistan is in the same chaos like it was under Taliban rule. The same laws, the same killing of innocents and no hope for a better future. Even the Taliban clans still rule - they just have put down the name "Taliban". But there are the same clans with the same territories they control and the same brutal laws like under the Taliban rule.

And Iraq is far more dangerous with its population-mix of Kurds, Sunnites and SHiites than the battered Afghanistan.

Not for the USA or Europe or even its neighbors.

But they will start a civil war which will kill 100thousands of inncocent iraquis.


Thats why I am against this war. Because there wont be any corrections. There will only be many innocent people who have to die.

[air_guard]

Well agree, but the trigger man has the responibility in my eyes.

I know the problems you mention and for not saying that my own country acutally sold heavy water to Israel in the 60`s dont make me feel better.(bloody lame feel so sorry about the jews after ww2 thinking bullhite, they maybe far away from  killing  5 million arabs  but they sure is working hard on it)
But still it is the trigger man that does the damage.

If einstein was alive should we have him drawn to court for his equals ? (that equal/among others) killed about 500000 japanese civilians in 1945.

[Puke]

I think it was incredibly stupid of the US to send Saddam biological warfare weapons back in the 80's.  The justification was that it was only to be used as a last ditch defense to prevent the country's downfall 'cause he was starting to lose.  But he used it offensively.  Nevertheless, we should've never provided that stuff to him for any reason.  
What's also incredulous is that Iraq was sold a nuclear reactor...a country which has the world's largest oil reserves needs nuclear energy?!  Iraq has no use for nuclear power.  Anyway, a lot of us are to blame for the setting that the world is in today.

[air_guard]

ironicly it was rumsfeld himselve who was visiting bagdad in 1983 and later on maked sure they got help at that time

LOL history is somthing isnt it ?

[Rasker]

hey, if the Kaiser hadnt sent an obscure revolutionary named Lenin to destabilize Russia...  

If Arch-Duke Ferdinand's chaffeur hadnt got lost and stopped to read a map....

If someone had stopped John Wilkes Booth and Lincoln had lived to complete Reconstruction on his terms...

the mind boggles

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by babek-
@airguard -

You really compare someone who sells a car with someone who sells GAS WEAPONS ????

What do you expect gas weapons are made for ? To use them as a deodorant or against other people?

@ cobra

If there would be a correction of the situation I would agree with a war.

At the time those countries made a mistake. Saddam was a new kid on the block as far as world leaders go. Now those countries are fixing that mistake.

The question you have to ask yourself is, who is worse, the Americans who sold him the gas munitions in the 80's. Or the Germans who sold him the parts to improve the Scud's in the 2000's?

You cannot justify present actions by comparing them with mistakes made over 20 years ago.

[Dowding]

At the time those countries made a mistake. Saddam was a new kid on the block as far as world leaders go.

I'm sorry Vulcan, but that doesn't fly. AFTER the gas attacks against Kurds, and AFTER the gas attacks against the Iranians, the US sold chemical weapon precursors to Saddam in the full knowledge that they would be used to manufacture chemical weapons.

Saddam was not an unknown quantity. He was a Western construct and considered a friend even though he had killed thousands with WMD.

[Fishu]

Airguard,

First selling weapons to a nation, being friend of it and saying they have not done wrong with the weapons, then few years later requiring it to give a list of all the weapons and destroy those and telling how they're posessing illegal weapons - now that IS a problem.

It's not like the car reseller is going to defend the new buyer when hes droven over someone knowingly and then bit later telling how hes driving a bad car which is a risk for the safety of others.