To HO or not to HO

[eddiek]

Personally, my feelings are mixed on the issue (if it really IS an issue).
I dislike it when someone comes in from an alt advantage and just HO's, but then I think to myself:  Who is the dummy, me for just setting there and letting do it, or him, for just rushing straight in and blazing away?
Other times, like when I am outnumbered (which happens ALOT when ya fly rook), I figure if I am gonna go out, I am taking a few with me if I can.  So, I HO each idiot that lets himself get in my sights.
The bottom line, IMHO, is that if you let yourself get in front of someone else's guns, basically, YOU screwed up.  You can whine and call the other guy a "HO dweeb", but the bottom line is, he did the same thing you did, tried to get a gun solution, and apparently was successful.  I used to get mad, like it seems some still do, but now I ask myself why I let it happen.
So, in conclusion, instead of griping at and about the other guy, think the situation over and ask yourself the same thing.  Most times, you didn't think the other guy could get around and get pointed at ya.....and you screwed up, nothing more, nothing less.

[Ghosth]

I very seldom will take the HO shot. The exceptions being

A not enough E for immelman

B outnumbered 3 to 1

C Field defense where I can respawn right away.

D Selected planes with light guns, example, C.202, (hey he only has peashooters, I can win this one  

When I do go for the HO, I like to shoot at LONG range, & break hard about 400 to spoil his shot.

[Sandman_SBM]

If I'm in a CHOG otw to a JABO drop and you present a HO opportunity, I will shoot... every single time.

[Kieren]

If I outgun you and you can outturn me, I go for whatever clear shot you give me.

[Dead Man Flying]

Generally, I won't HO unless someone has E/alt and is doing a boring dance on my head.  You know the type... dive, make a half-hearted attempt at a cockpit shot, then extend and grab again.  Repeat ad nauseum.  I'll humor them a few times with this, then pull into a HO shot without warning on one of the passes.

Nothing says loving to a 51 like four 20mm Hispanos right in the face.

-- Todd/DMF

[easymo]

 To all H2H fans. Ignore all the dont HO posts. I find it much harder to set up my turns, if I dont know where you are going.

[StSanta]

Hm, well you chaps seem to be talking about merge Ho's only. I'll just make a quick comment on that.

Two FW190A8s, both at the same speed merge. D2.0, one definitely goes for the HO, the other decides to avoid it. Turns a bit left to create an offset angle, rolls right and pulls a little, avoiding the HO.

Both zoom. Which 190 will win?

This is what I mean when I say "giving up position to avoid a HO". There are other ways of avoiding HO's that are riskier but conserve more e, such as merely diving below the nose of the enemy. Doesn't work too well if the guy has hisps and is spraying.

As to other kinds of HO's, the ones I am caught in are the ones where both go vertical, come around and desperately try to get guns on before the other guy. these are hard to avoid, especially if you're in he A8, because the laternative is either running straight and having him on your six, or a gentle pullup that places you higher than the enemy, but with him on your 6.

And having an enemy on your 6 in the 190 is generally not a good thing  .

I'll HO when outnumbered or when outta options - or, like this tour, when i've designated the tour a Dweeb tour  .



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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"All your base/are belong to us"
http://www.thefever.com/AYB2.swf
Keep up the momentum!

[Duckwing6]

Noble... honorable.. BAH

I fly in the MA to get kills and to RTB said kills.

that requires:

a) to make kills e.g. to get engaged
b) to avoide unnecessary risks
c) to take a shot when the oportunity arrises

if you come at me co alt with me not having enough speed to go vertical whet you expect that i show my belly side for you to lead turn on me ? hell no i'll try to give you as small a turning room as possible because i'm likely to try to get some distance to build speed or to disengage if an advantage can not be obtained.

There's no such thing like a "cheap" shot

[StSanta]

b) is the key here duck  .

I.e if ya HO when ya got huge alt adv and other safer options, then it's a dumb move  .

------------------
Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"All your base/are belong to us"
http://www.thefever.com/AYB2.swf
Keep up the momentum!

[Duckwing6]

think i'xplained it 2 lines lower no ?

[Lephturn]

Why do people whine about HO's?  Because they lose.  

Just a note Santa.  In the situation you mention above with the two 190's... the one that avoided the HO will definately have a positional advantage.  You may not get an E advantage in the zoom though.  The trick is that the fellow who avoids the HO can do something like a roll that doesn't cost much E, and transition into an immelman, while the guy avoiding can be pulling into the immelman earlier doing a vertical lead turn.  The guy taking the HO shot normally has to overshoot below you if you avoid below his nose, so he is going to burn more E in the pull up, and lose position due to pulling up later.  In my experience the guy who avoids ends up with advantages in both areas.  Indeed, this is how I work a higher bogey who is BnZing me.  After several passes, you can often wear down his E advantage enough to surprise him and turn the tables.

One other observation.  You guys mention how somebody with a "huge E advantage" will dive down and HO you.  Well, remember how FAST that guy is likely going.  He sets up for a run on you, and you turn into him... setting up for the HO.  At this point he is really fast, and can't maneuver very quickly at all.  It's unlikely he'll be able to maneuver well enough to avoid the HO at high speed, and he is loath to do any hard maneuvering to try and maintain his E advantage.  If you are too low on E to get out of his way, or silly enough to try the HO, of course the BnZer is going to try it.  Generally the BnZ pilot also has a plane with great guns and good armor, so he can be more confident of winning the HO.

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Lephturn - Aces High Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome!

"Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know." - Michel Eyquem, seigneur de Montaigne. (1533–1592)

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 02-21-2001).]