Author Topic: The Ethics of War  (Read 387 times)

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
The Ethics of War
« on: March 28, 2003, 12:16:26 AM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/ethics/war/warindex.shtml

It's some good reading... food for thought... enjoy.
sand

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
The Ethics of War
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2003, 12:21:17 AM »
Quote
Just causes:

Self-Defence:

attack on national honour (e.g. burning the flag, attacking an embassy)


There ya go Sand! You can get fully behind this one now! I'm sure there's some relatively recent "Deth to Amreeka! Deth to Saten Boush!" Iraqi flag-burning photos around.


:D

Hey, Hang... I think this clears you in hot on the French and Germans too!



























Just kidding, boys. I actually think we're on pretty shaky "just cause" grounds. Depending on what they find, of course.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Hangtime

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10148
The Ethics of War
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2003, 12:23:39 AM »
yup.

and like yah said, it better be found 'correctly'.

btw, I've been keeping score.. (weather, supply line, etc) you ain't been wrong yet.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
The Ethics of War
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2003, 12:25:24 AM »
Damn... missed that line...

I can't buy it... attack on national honour doesn't sound like just cause to me... and attacking an embassy isn't about honor at all.
sand

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
The Ethics of War
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2003, 12:32:58 AM »
But.. but... but.... it's from an unimpeachable source!

It's BBC fer cod's sake man! In the bloody Religion/Ethics section too!

It HAS to be OK!

Now if Fox had said it.... you could just dismiss it right? But now... ruh roh!

:D
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24760
The Ethics of War
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2003, 12:36:28 AM »
Quote

Human rights violations:
Another common example is putting right a violation of human rights so severe that force is the only sensible response.

What is a Just Cause?

St. Augustine's view
St. Augustine said there were 3 just causes:

defending against attack
recapturing things taken
punishing people who have done wrong
Each of these can be seen as an act of justice: they harm someone who deserves to be harmed because they have done wrong.

A Modern Definition:
In 1993 the US Catholic Conference defined just cause like this:

"Just Cause: force may be used only to correct a grave, public evil, i.e., aggression or massive violation of the basic rights of whole populations."

Punishment
There are three groups of people that might be in line for punishment:

The whole people of another country.
The leaders of another courntry.
Private individuals in another country.
A war of punishment would only be just if it was in proportion to the crime and was the only way to achieve the desired end.

Violation of Human Rights
Let's look at a couple of ways of expanding this idea...


A war is just if force is the only way to stop the triumph of evil.
This appears helpful, but the difficulty is deciding on what is 'evil', since not all potential enemies are as obviously evil as the Hitler regime in World War II.


A war is just in order to put right acts "that shock the moral conscience of mankind."
This formula is perhaps more helpful, because it says that war is just in order to deal with things that would shock almost everyone


I'm sure every one of us could find websites that shore up our personal beliefs and undermine others.

http://www.perspicacityonline.com/209/Terrorism20923.htm
« Last Edit: March 28, 2003, 12:38:30 AM by Arlo »

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
The Ethics of War
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2003, 12:38:49 AM »
I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet.

...and no. Just because BBC said it doesn't mean it's true any more than if Fox said it.

All the same... I'd feel better if there was a bibliography.
sand

Offline Hangtime

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10148
The Ethics of War
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2003, 12:41:56 AM »
hoist by ones own petard..


care to borrow my knife??

:D
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
The Ethics of War
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2003, 12:50:29 AM »
There's a zillion "just war theory" sites.

Just find one that agrees with you.  ;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
The Ethics of War
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2003, 12:58:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
hoist by ones own petard..


care to borrow my knife??

:D


Wasn't my intention to forward any sort of agenda. I just thought it was interesting.


EDIT: Quoting Shakespeare? Hang, I'm impressed. :D
sand