Author Topic: War's influence on Russian "economics".  (Read 1120 times)

Offline Boroda

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War's influence on Russian "economics".
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2003, 09:01:35 AM »
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Rumsfeld was Secretary of Defense under Gerald Ford.  As well, Dick Cheney became Ford's Chief of Staff after Rumsfeld was promoted from that job to the cabinet position.


That explains the deja-vu I feel when I listen to them...

:(

Offline Elfie

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War's influence on Russian "economics".
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2003, 04:51:57 PM »
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It's nice to have a good discussion without any people blaming Russia in all possible sins including raping all german population in 1945, regardless to their sex.


I did a search on Google with these parameters "Soviet Union" "rape" "Germany" "1945". I was rewarded with at least 10 pages of results.

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The authorities in Moscow traditionally deny German allegations of mass rape at the end of the war. But during his research, Beevor discovered internal Red Army documents which prove that the Soviet High Command was well aware that some of their soldiers were running out of control. Even more shocking is Beevor's discovery in the Red Army files that Red Army troops also raped Russian women after their release from Nazi slave labour camps in Germany.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/berlin_05.shtml

Here's the link listing search results.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22Soviet+Union%22++%22rape%22++%22Germany%22+%221945%22

This subject might be worth a few minutes of your time Boroda. Educating oneself on your own countries mistakes is not a bad thing. America at one time had huge numbers of black slaves. We also drove the natives onto reservations under threat of death. We even had our own version of the *Bataan Death March* (Cherokee Trail of Tears).

I have found the O'Club to be stimulating, forcing me to think about *why* I believe certain things, and has even rekindled my interest in current affairs :p
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Elfie

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War's influence on Russian "economics".
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2003, 04:54:25 PM »
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Originally posted by Boroda
the problem that in Kosovo NATO was on the side who committed crimes against humanity.

NATO killed 10 times more people then died in a Kosovo anti-terrorist operation on both sides. NATO helped Albanian terrorists and drug-dealers against Serbian police forces, and in fact established a fundamental Moslim terrorist anclave in Europe. Fortunately, an attempt to continue in Macedonia failed.


Can you post links that further explain this postion?
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Ike 2K#

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War's influence on Russian "economics".
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2003, 09:58:43 PM »
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Originally posted by Boroda
I mean that oil prices will drop immediately after "coalition" will install a "democratic" regime in Iraq, controlled from Washington :(
word "nationalistic" there.


(protesting)

BOOOOO, let the U.N. run the post-war show, not USA. If not, Boroda will go poor:D

Offline Puke

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War's influence on Russian "economics".
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2003, 11:31:54 PM »
I found this in some other message board.  I cannot verify if it's accurate or skewed or fiction, but post it here because it is on topic of Russias losses to a defeated Iraq.  And the $8 billion ties in with what Baroda was saying.

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According to the CIA World Factbook, Russia controls roughly 5.8 percent of Iraq’s annual imports. Under the U.N. oil-for-food program, Russia’s total trade with Iraq was somewhere between $530 million and $1 billion for the six months ending in December of 2001.
According to the Russian Ambassador to Iraq, Vladimir Titorenko, new contracts worth another $200 million under the U.N. oil-for-food program are to be signed over the next three months.
Soviet-era debt of $7 billion through $8 billion was generated by arms sales to Iraq during the 1980–1988 Iran–Iraq war.
Russia’s LUKoil negotiated a $4 billion, 23-year contract in 1997 to rehabilitate the 15 billion-barrel West Qurna field in southern Iraq. Work on the oil field was expected to commence upon cancellation of U.N. sanctions on Iraq. The deal is currently on hold.
In October 2001, Salvneft, a Russian–Belarus company, negotiated a $52 million service contract to drill at the Tuba field in Southern Iraq.
In April 2001, Russia’s Zaruezhneft company received a service contract to drill in the Saddam, Kirkuk, and Bai Hassan fields to rehabilitate the fields and reduce water incursion.
A future $40 billion Iraqi–Russian economic agreement, reportedly signed in 2002, would allow for extensive oil exploration opportunities throughout western Iraq. The proposal calls for 67 new projects, over a 10-year time frame, to explore and further develop fields in southern Iraq and the Western Desert, including the Suba, Luhais, West Qurna, and Rumaila projects. Additional projects added to the deal include second-phase construction of a pipeline running from southern to northern Iraq, and extensive drilling and gas projects. Work on these projects would commence upon cancellation of sanctions.
Russia’s Gazprom company over the past few years has signed contracts worth $18 million to repair gas stations in Iraq.
The former Soviet Union was the premier supplier of Iraqi arms. From 1981 to 2001, Russia supplied Iraq with 50 percent of its arms.

Offline Glasses

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War's influence on Russian "economics".
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2003, 11:55:35 PM »
Not only did they rape German women but they also raped German children and raped them while their parents and a crowd  watched in horror  that couldn't do anything due to the heavily armed soldiers,not only that but there's a story of how a russian platoon raped a young girl and her mother repedeatly until both died from internal bleeding .  Having a submachine gun pointed at your head is a deterrant and empowerment for these honorable war criminals during the last months of WW2. Disgusting.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2003, 12:00:21 AM by Glasses »

Offline Ike 2K#

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War's influence on Russian "economics".
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2003, 12:39:12 AM »
Jeez what is the rape incident in the former nazi germany have to do with the war economy in russia????

Offline Boroda

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War's influence on Russian "economics".
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2003, 11:42:07 AM »
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Originally posted by Glasses
Not only did they rape German women but they also raped German children and raped them while their parents and a crowd  watched in horror  that couldn't do anything due to the heavily armed soldiers,not only that but there's a story of how a russian platoon raped a young girl and her mother repedeatly until both died from internal bleeding .  Having a submachine gun pointed at your head is a deterrant and empowerment for these honorable war criminals during the last months of WW2. Disgusting.


Is "Blond knight of Reich" the only book you have read?...

What makes me go crazy is that "evil communists" were starving the "knight" to death, giving him ONLY 600g of bread, 50g of sugar and 30g of butter daily. Damn. And they fed him while children were starving all over the country in 1947...

Offline Boroda

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War's influence on Russian "economics".
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2003, 11:48:33 AM »
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Originally posted by Elfie
I did a search on Google with these parameters "Soviet Union" "rape" "Germany" "1945". I was rewarded with at least 10 pages of results.


Russians also ate all German children after they raped them

Beevor simply can't be called a "historian". I am tired of all this crap.

Again, and for the last time. Any Soviet soldier accused in rape and maraudery had to be executed in front of his unit. Unlike "allies", Soviet command fought all this crimes with iron hand.

Offline Elfie

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War's influence on Russian "economics".
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2003, 12:05:03 PM »
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Again, and for the last time. Any Soviet soldier accused in rape and maraudery had to be executed in front of his unit. Unlike "allies", Soviet command fought all this crimes with iron hand.



Maybe this is why the Soivets gave Berlin to the soldiers for 3 days and allowed the rape/loot/pillage. Like I suggested to you before Boroda, it's not a bad thing to educate oneself on your countries mistakes. Beevor was not the only historian that my google search came up with. There are far to many documented cases of this happening for it to be false.  

On the other hand I guess you can do like the Japanese with regards to thier war crimes and pretend they didnt happen.

No country is perfect Boroda, EVERY gov't makes their share of mistakes. I have already listed several of my country's mistakes.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Glasses

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War's influence on Russian "economics".
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2003, 12:09:57 PM »
Yes of course they did. Mother Russia never fails in their quest for justice :rolleyes:

Offline Boroda

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War's influence on Russian "economics".
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2003, 12:12:02 PM »
Berlin was given to Russian soldiers for 3 days to plunder!?

Where the hell did you read it!?

Every Soviet soldier had the strict limit - 16 kilograms of trophy he can bring or send home.

Damn, had to edit the post 2 times...