Author Topic: Friday The 4th  (Read 4924 times)

Offline Löwe

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Friday The 4th
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2003, 08:32:12 PM »
Brady.
Thats the kicker for me the A6M2 is meat on the table to an F4F. The guns suck  , a few seconds of decent firepower against the F4Fs constant stream of 50 cals is a joke. Add to the fact the toughness of the F4F , it's like shooting an anvil. The 100 plus people was this due to the popularity or the main dumping? Plus were the sides even?

I know this isnt going to change your minds, but the F6F , A6M5 watchup has always been a good one. One I havent seen any complaints about. This would be a great setup with the addition of the A6M5, KI-61 , F6F off one or two CV's F4F off the others, the F4U1 early model from land bases. You could still keep the P-40E, and YUCK A6M2.

It's just a whine I appreciate all you guys do, I just wish you'd lay off the A6M2 only PTO's for a while. Besides I know there are a lot of people that don't like squads in the CT, but VF-27, 880FAA, and the 13th Sentai do alot to support this arena, the F4U, F6F, and Ki-61 are their rides.

I know I know whaa whaa whaa.:p

Offline Eagler

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Friday The 4th
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2003, 09:03:45 PM »
you forgot the 109's ....
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Offline brady

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Friday The 4th
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2003, 09:34:01 PM »
"Thats the kicker for me the A6M2 is meat on the table to an F4F. The guns suck , a few seconds of decent firepower against the F4Fs constant stream of 50 cals is a joke."

 Ya I agree, but it is as good as it get's at present.

 "Add to the fact the toughness of the F4F , it's like shooting an anvil."

 Yup.

 "The 100 plus people was this due to the popularity or the main dumping? Plus were the sides even?"

 I flew the whole week last time we ran this and we had good numbers all week, esoichaly on Squad nights whear the CT hit 100 on both Tuesday and Thursday, I check and the Main was still up at those times.

 
"I know this isnt going to change your minds, but the F6F , A6M5 watchup has always been a good one. One I havent seen any complaints about."

 Well the same problems exist between the Hellcat and the A6M5 as exist between the Wildcat and the A6M2, except that their even worse the hellcat is aproximatly 35 mph faster than the A6M5 on the deck and while the guns are better on the A6M5 they are not hugly so.

 The Early Model F4U is the fastest of all it compleatly domanates the Tony and the Zero's Being faster than the tony by aprox 50mph and around 70 mph faster than the A6M5.

 The Tony and the Hellcat are not to bad a match up, the Hellcat is faster by aroud 15 to 20 mph, but it out excelerates the Tony to boot which gives them an advantage, but still they are a prety good match up, if the Hellcat fights and doesent run away like I see them do all the time when fighting them.

 I guarintee we will not be doing this plane set for a while after this though.

 Skyfoxx, the George was neuterd by HTC over a year ago now.

 Click on the blue Cannon link bellow.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2003, 04:42:49 AM by brady »

Offline Jester

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Friday The 4th
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2003, 09:40:20 PM »
Have to agree with Lowe on this one.

The guys that like the Corsairs, Hellcats & later war Japanese a/c should get to fly their a/c just like everyone else. It's only fair. As our squad is dedicated to fly Japanese planes during the PTO set-up's I wouldn't mind seeing the late war planes myself.

We had the "Slot" map in the last PTO set-up in the CT. Time for a change IMO. The Big Pacific map gives everyone almost everthing they want. F4U-1's & P-40E's from landbases, F6F & F4F's or even Seafires from the CV's versus the A6M5 & KI-61.

Alot of stats have banded about about the aircraft in the early war PTO - but it is not the a/c - it is the US .50cal vs. the dumbed down Japanese cannons on the A6M2. Yes, some can rack up 5 kills in one sortie but at the same time I have seen 3 different A6M2's unload their whole cannon load into a fleeing Wildcat from point blank and he kept hauling prettythang back to his buddies. You can't say that is right no matter how much you believe it.

As for numbers: If I remember correctly the late war PTO's with the above described plane set was also very popular with both sides and is pretty evenly matched.

Time to switch up CT crew, the "Slot" is getting old.
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Offline Slash27

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Friday The 4th
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2003, 09:58:54 PM »
If you late war Blue plane types want good match up's campagine for more late war Japanese planes to be added to AH.

 We already do. They arent coming anytime soon. It sounds like we want a late war PTO to me. We cant have a plane because its faster than another?  Call it Allied whining and dismiss us if you want, oh wait, Jester and Lowe fly Axis.  Let us play.

Offline brady

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Friday The 4th
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2003, 10:08:33 PM »
"The guys that like the Corsairs, Hellcats & later war Japanese a/c should get to fly their a/c just like everyone else. It's only fair. As our squad is dedicated to fly Japanese planes during the PTO set-up's I wouldn't mind seeing the late war planes myself."

  Yes they should, I am not saying were Not going to another late war japanese set up I am just pointing out how even the best match we can creat for the late war time frame is compleatly inbalanced in favor of the Allies, I can understand somebody wanting to fly their favorate planes, but i have a bit of a problem with them beleaving it to be a good match up.

 Like I said before we had a huge attandance last time in the CT this map was run which was the big deciding point in reruning it again a month later, it is also the most balanced CT set up we can creat for the pacific at present.

" It sounds like we want a late war PTO to me."

 Well the Vocal minourity is always ...well just that, you well get a late war Pac set up in the future, perhaps even next week. Just not this Friday.

 "We cant have a plane because its faster than another?"

  Somtiems yes that is right.

 "Call it Allied whining and dismiss us if you want"

 Everybody Whines, not just the Allies.

Offline Squire

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Friday The 4th
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2003, 10:40:12 PM »
What in the world is wrong with the Ki-61? Its got cannon, its fast, it climbs well, it dives well. It was THE best IJ fighter untill the Ki-84 and the N1K2 showed up in 1945. It can (and did) fight P-40Es, F4Fs, F6Fs, and F4U-1s. Maybe perk the F4U-1 at 3 pts or something and have it at a back base.

As far as the "mythical IJ fighter that AH doesnt have?" there is none. In the SW Pacific the Ki-61 was IT.  The rest were Ki-43s (320mph) or Zeros. The Ki-44 is bandied about, trouble is its no faster and was not used in the Solomons, but rather Burma. Ki-45? too slow again. Ki-61 was top dog 1943-44 in the Solomons and N.G. so I keep wondering what special fighter you are all waiting the IJ to get.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2003, 11:16:40 PM by Squire »
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Offline Dennis

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Friday The 4th
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2003, 11:15:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by brady
P40E is around 276 on the deck and the A6m2 is around 275 on the deck. Most combat takes place low.


bs.
The problem with the p40 is if you're a fart smeller you don't fly it on the deck.  The problem with the p40 is that when "most combat" is taking place "low" 'tween wildcats and zekes, the p40s swoop in from higher and cherrypick.

perk it or leave it out.
I don't understand why you put in in in the first place if you want an a6m vs f4f setup.  What's the point?  Why's it there?

Splash1

Offline DamPhyno

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CT setup for next week.
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2003, 12:02:02 AM »
I say this:

Pick a week...a *specific week* out of the year you want.

We're doing something different now. We're resetting Perks at the end of each map. Everyone starts on Friday with the same number of points...none.

Put the planes - all of them - that belong there *that one particular week of 1942* in.
Perk them so that their actual numbers will be decently represented. If there were only a few of them about, they should be 3-5 points apiece. If they represented the mainstay of a combat force, make 'em free.
Limit them to the actual bases that RW Squadrons flew them out of.

Let the games begin!

It boils down to this for me. If you fly the plane like it's supposed to be flown (with some amount of adaptation for the effects of flying a cartoon plane in a mathematicially imperfect simulated world), you should do as well as the real plane did.

As far as a plane being "faster" than another...I don't think that's a valid argument. I don't know about you all, but when *I'm* fighting, I spend a *very* small amount of time at the plane's maximum speed. *VERY* small indeed. If a faster plane runs away...I let him go. If a faster plane is running down my 6, and I'm out of options and almost out of ideas, I FUBARed Something Up, and it's my own damn fault. Ingenuity will see me through, or I'll be very dead, and I start over... No big deal either way.

Oh, and I'd have no objection to the A6M5.

DamPhyno

Offline brady

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Friday The 4th
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2003, 12:28:12 AM »
"What in the world is wrong with the Ki-61? Its got cannon, its fast, it climbs well, it dives well."

 Well Nothing realy, it is the late War model, not the one that was in New Gunie in 43, but realy it depends on what time frome your looking to add it into and what planes your seting it aganst.

 "It was THE best IJ fighter untill the Ki-84 and the N1K2 showed up in 1945."

 Well that could be argued from any number of prespectives and time frames, Some might say the Zero was king early on and then later the Jack rocked, or that for a brief time in New Gunie that the Tony rocked the allies planet.

 "It can (and did) fight P-40Es, F4Fs, F6Fs, and F4U-1s. Maybe perk the F4U-1 at 3 pts or something and have it at a back base. "

 Well this true but this doesent mean that it would be a good match up.

"As far as the "mythical IJ fighter that AH doesnt have?" there is none. In the SW Pacific the Ki-61 was IT. The rest were Ki-43s (320mph) or Zeros. The Ki-44 is bandied about, trouble is its no faster and was not used in the Solomons, but rather Burma. Ki-45? too slow again. Ki-61 was top dog 1943-44 in the Solomons and N.G. so I keep wondering what special fighter you are all waiting the IJ to get."

  It is no fun for anyone to fight up hill aganst overwhealming odds, it is not good for the CT for us to creat lopsided set up's, Other than the Ki 84, or the Jack, we realy dont nead another New Japanese single engine fighter, we do howeaver nead some more varients of some of the planes we do have. We have 4 F4U's and one Tony, one George, and the latest and earlest Zero's. we nead to fill in the gaps a bit hear to help us to do better match up's. HTC has not helped any of in this regard for the CT, howeaver sometime withen the Next year we may see more planes coming for the Japanese.

 One thing we can and have done is creat fantsy set up's that feature planes fighting plane types that were not realy put head to head on maps that did not see those plane types.

 Frankly I think a Tony VS a 50 MPH Faster fighter with a firepower advantage, durabality advantage, effective gunrange advantage and an exceleration advantage does not make for a good match up, The best thing the Tony has going for it is that the Blue plane flyer in the F4U might screw up blead his E and try and turn with him, the only strength he (the Tony ) has the in the promis of the stupidy of the guy in the F4U.

 Just Because planes faught one another in the real world does not mean they are good match up's in the CT.

 "The problem with the p40 is if you're a fart smeller you don't fly it on the deck. The problem with the p40 is that when "most combat" is taking place "low" 'tween wildcats and zekes, the p40s swoop in from higher and cherrypick.'

 Yes they do, but if they turn they lose their advantage, and if the Zero has Zero SA he will be dead, it is prety easy to get out of their way if you have a clue, like I said earler we have ran set up's with just these two planes being the primary fighters facing each other and it was not that big a deal, one nice thing is that the P40 comes apart prety nicely, much easer than the Wildcat, and it is not anywhear near as manuaverable as a Wildcat.

"perk it or leave it out.
I don't understand why you put in in in the first place if you want an a6m vs f4f setup. What's the point? Why's it there? "

 It is limited to a base so far away that it is almost compleatly out of play. I put it in to give those allies who whine about having no preformance advantage somthing to hope for, some tards will fly it 4 sectors to give themslefs the preceaved advantage they nead to enable an engagement aganst the Zero's. These are the same people who think that the f4U-1a is a good match up aganst the A6M2. Not that I am pointing fingers:) I have done the same thing. It is not going to cause an imbalance it is not uber and it adds some depth to the plane set.

Offline brady

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Friday The 4th
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2003, 12:38:52 AM »
"Pick a week...a *specific week* out of the year you want.

We're doing something different now. We're resetting Perks at the end of each map. Everyone starts on Friday with the same number of points...none.'

 NO WERE not reseting perks every week, were only doing this for specific set up's, we can not easly reset perks and we can not set values we the CT stafers nead to get HTC to do this and it is used sparingly.

"Put the planes - all of them - that belong there *that one particular week of 1942* in.
Perk them so that their actual numbers will be decently represented. If there were only a few of them about, they should be 3-5 points apiece. If they represented the mainstay of a combat force, make 'em free.
Limit them to the actual bases that RW Squadrons flew them out of. "

 Perks dont realy suxcesfully limit planes, this is a comon misconception, the average Joe might feal the pinch but most players in the CT can get their good rides at will, since most are good sticks. Limiting is a good way to restrick a planes use howeaver people will fly several sectors to get the advantage a plane will give them so this doesent realy work either.



"It boils down to this for me. If you fly the plane like it's supposed to be flown (with some amount of adaptation for the effects of flying a cartoon plane in a mathematicially imperfect simulated world), you should do as well as the real plane did. "

 Well yes this is often ture, imagine people flying the F4U-1 the way it should be aganst the Japanese, after a while we have nobody flying as Japanese, Fortunatly not everone is disaplined enough to do this.

"As far as a plane being "faster" than another...I don't think that's a valid argument. I don't know about you all, but when *I'm* fighting, I spend a *very* small amount of time at the plane's maximum speed. *VERY* small indeed. If a faster plane runs away...I let him go. If a faster plane is running down my 6, and I'm out of options and almost out of ideas, I FUBARed Something Up, and it's my own damn fault. Ingenuity will see me through, or I'll be very dead, and I start over... No big deal either way. "

 LOL

Offline Shane

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Friday The 4th
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2003, 01:07:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by brady
"What in the world is wrong with the Ki-61? Its got cannon, its fast, it climbs well, it dives well."
 Well Nothing realy, it is the late War model, not the one that was in New Gunie in 43, but realy it depends on what time frome your looking to add it into and what planes your seting it aganst.
 "


ever notice most allied stuff are the latest versions while axis stuff, particularly the ijn/a stuff is usually an early version.

the debate that the ki-61 is a later version simply shouldn't be used as an excuse to exclude it.
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Offline 1Duke1

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Friday The 4th
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2003, 02:17:54 AM »
Brady...unfortunately, you are beginning to sound like a broken record.


Don't think you will find one person in here who will argue against saying that the Japanese have a weak planeset.  Sorry, but that reasoning for not having a late war setup is getting old.

You say you are worried about numbers in Late PTO setups....well seems to me lately (from reading the posts) that there are quite a few folks in here who are willing to fly for the japanese side.  

We actually have folks (Axis no less) calling for a PTO setup....so we get the slot again!  I know...I know...a new PTO map is coming.  But enough is enough!

Guess it comes down to the fact we won't be seeing late war PTO until Brady says so.

A shame since there are quite a few axis pilots who fly Japanese iron well, but get stuck in the zeke again.


Take this as you will.....I haven't been able to fly now for over a week because of RL military duty issues, so I'm having major withdrawal issues:mad:
Duke

Offline brady

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Friday The 4th
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2003, 04:31:20 AM »
Were not having a late war set up this week, like I said we may have one later, but this is my set up this week and this is the one I am runing, I dont pick all the set up's just my own.

 I am sounding like a broken reckord because most of the squeaking is coming from the same prespective, and I am responding to the same issue's, mostly because it seams like folks havent read the whole thread.:)

 Shane, that was not an argument for excluding the Tony in this set, it was a comment.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2003, 04:50:33 AM by brady »

Offline HiJack

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Friday The 4th
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2003, 05:54:09 AM »
Srry Brady, guess I stirred up a hornets nest, hey we all really appreciate what you do, only wish I had the knowledge and time to do it, guess what i was really saying is that maybe once in awhile a little fantasy map would be ok, like USN against LW or Russian. I know we all like historical maps and I know we can go to the MA and get the fantasy stuff, butt would really like to fly against the guys I fly against all the time with some of the late stuff. Just kickin it around. You guys do a great job and I try not to whine too much, and wasnt meaning to start something, just want to fly my Hellcat in the CT sometime, and I am sure you guys will have that setup sooner or later !