This setup is boring

[Urchin]

1v1 none of the Allied planes stand a chance against a A6M2.  Period.  

This means two things- it is boring for the U.S. side if they choose to fly in 1's and 2's, and it is boring for the Japanese side when they inevitably decide to come in in 3's and 4's at 20k.  

No, I don't have a solution, I just felt like squeaking.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Urchin
1v1 none of the Allied planes stand a chance against a A6M2.  Period.  

This means two things- it is boring for the U.S. side if they choose to fly in 1's and 2's, and it is boring for the Japanese side when they inevitably decide to come in in 3's and 4's at 20k.  

No, I don't have a solution, I just felt like squeaking.

Heh heh.  FWIW, I agree with you about the US planes being the whipping dogs of the nimble zeke.  But that was true the last time we had this setup, and the interesting thing (well, I thought it was interesting) was the way in which it forced the sides to behave as they did in real life.

BUT....since we get to complain here....I wish someone would get rid of the frigging boats.  Or take away their ack guns or something.  I have observed that people are still sailing those fleets up next to enemy airbases, and just parking them there.  When this is done to an allied base it is enough to drive people out of the CT (cough cough), because the wildcat and p40 have no hope if they can't get a bit of alt.

- oldman

[214thCavalier]

Fleets parked offshore are a pain in the bellybutton for both sides, once that AAA umbrella is in position.
The sooner somebody can implement offshore reefs capable of sinking the fleets the better it will be.

Then again asking HT to add minelayer capabilites to the PT boats or similar could work

[Miska]

Mines!  Capital idea old bean.  I hope HT is listening.

[najdorf]

Its ridiculous to have bases that can be shelled by offshore fleets and have no shore batteries at those fields.  Last nite the Allies had a carrier fleet parked off of A30 blasting away at the field.

Meanwhile, you try and up a zero to get some a2a action going and all you get are guys going for endless headons, vulches and then run back to the freindly confines of their ack.  You can't get on top of them because once you get to 5k the ship ack starts puffing all around you and the next thing you know you are back in the tower.

Even though I'm in an IJ squad and enjoyed this set up last time, this time I've gotten so frustrated by it that I have gone back to the MA.

Sure, in a 1v1 fight the zero outperforms the allied planes, but I never see them 1v1 and when I do they RUN.  Group tactics don't work that well for the zeros because they can't keep up with the allied planes.  One little spurt from an F4F and your plane is screwed while I can light up a wildcat or P40 for days and it has no effect.

And one of the things that really pissed me off was after getting myself basically vulched 4 times I get on the 6 of an F4f, I get him set up and get ready to blast him and in comes daddog zooming over my shoulder shooting this guy down.   Hey buddy, where the hell were you when I was getting tagteamed  on the other side of the base.  That's exactly when I want your help when I'm all alone on some guys 6 that I survived an HO with to get there and now he's helpless.  That is precisely the moment I want you to come blazing in to help.  Not when I'm turning and looping for my life trying to avoid ack and two nme fiters, when I've got the bastard helpless and alone.  Thanx for nothing.

And while I'm naming names, Seahob, you are the worst of the worst of the HO ack runners.  You spent the whole night grabbing over your ack and then zooming in over the field to get in a little HO.  The second you're in any kind of jeopardy, its run back to my fleet ack.

[Eagler]

does this setup win some kinda award for the most complained about?

it does give some good ship to ship action when the fleets are close ... not much air to air though especially when a fleet is nearby

my suggestion is to lower the ack/shelling down to .00001  (or as low as you can set it) strength

[keyapaha]

Yeah last night kinda sucked but hopefully today will be a better day

[HFMudd]

The sooner somebody can implement offshore reefs capable of sinking the fleets the better it will be.

Dumb question...  but couldn't reefs be done right now by adding a land tile that looks mostly like water?  The islands could be ringed by them and the fleets forced to stay away.  

These tiles would not need to be densly packed either.  Wouldn't they only need to be spaced close enough so that fleets could not pass through?  That was LVT's could make it in by either driving over the reef or by sail through and PT's could sail between.

[Sabre]

Nice idea, HFMudd!

Sabre
CT Staff

[Arlo]

C'mon, Naj. It's not uncommon for either side. There were 3(!) IJ fleets directly north of 40 earlier that night. One destroyer uber-aa patrol, one multi-cruiser (shell the base), one CV. The zekes upping from the CV either made suicide runs on the base as fast as they could over and over again or stayed within the ack umbrella to get hits on allied planes getting acked while trying to sink the fleet (for killscore).

As far as HOs are concerned ... when facing a plane that's co-alt or higher and can out-turn the heck outa me, I'm going to do it everytime the opportunity presents itself. Plain and simple. I believe most have adopted this as a valid practice. And it's not without precedent. Heck, once a zeke can latch onto the 6 of either an F4F or Pee-40b .. there is no shaking it. Not if the IJ pilot has any sort of reflexes or hand eye coordination at all. The only hope after that is to jink enough to reduce the hits until you can either make it to some sort of cover (and yes ... that does include ack) or some other plane can peel off the zeke.

I totally understand the frustration. I let frustration get the best of me the other night after three straight hours of offering up my P-40b as a kill sacrifice to the IJ in the CT. But, practically speaking, when it comes to HOs and ack you have a choice to make (since neither are going to go away on either side of the fight in our lifetime) - you can dodge the HO (either reposition - if possible - or sideslip past it if things are tight) ... you can break off and not follow a plane into ack (yes, he got away .. maybe he'll turn back ... maybe he's empty or shot up ... maybe he'll crash the plane that's barely flying and you'll get the kill).

And if I HO you or if I do whatever it takes to get away from you chewing up my plane, it's just me trying to kill your pilot and survive ... the premise of the game.

Kill stealing. What can I say? Yet one more thing you have no control over. Me either. I'll say this much ... if someone else pops the bad guy before I do .. good kill ... salute. The only time it ever bothered me some was when I've cut the tail or wing off someone and a "fellow" pilot decides to pump it full of rounds before it hits the ground. That's someone despirate for some points. Fortunately, I don't care about racking up points/score/rank ... besides ... like I've said about all the other stuff ... what's a guy to do?

Salute! Don't let the above drive you away. It's not something anyone can do anything about but you. Not the cm, not the other players .... just you (or I or whoever it happens to). And unfortunately ... sometimes all we can really do about it is take it.

Originally posted by najdorf
Its ridiculous to have bases that can be shelled by offshore fleets and have no shore batteries at those fields.  Last nite the Allies had a carrier fleet parked off of A30 blasting away at the field.

Meanwhile, you try and up a zero to get some a2a action going and all you get are guys going for endless headons, vulches and then run back to the freindly confines of their ack.  You can't get on top of them because once you get to 5k the ship ack starts puffing all around you and the next thing you know you are back in the tower.

Even though I'm in an IJ squad and enjoyed this set up last time, this time I've gotten so frustrated by it that I have gone back to the MA.

Sure, in a 1v1 fight the zero outperforms the allied planes, but I never see them 1v1 and when I do they RUN.  Group tactics don't work that well for the zeros because they can't keep up with the allied planes.  One little spurt from an F4F and your plane is screwed while I can light up a wildcat or P40 for days and it has no effect.

And one of the things that really pissed me off was after getting myself basically vulched 4 times I get on the 6 of an F4f, I get him set up and get ready to blast him and in comes daddog zooming over my shoulder shooting this guy down.   Hey buddy, where the hell were you when I was getting tagteamed  on the other side of the base.  That's exactly when I want your help when I'm all alone on some guys 6 that I survived an HO with to get there and now he's helpless.  That is precisely the moment I want you to come blazing in to help.  Not when I'm turning and looping for my life trying to avoid ack and two nme fiters, when I've got the bastard helpless and alone.  Thanx for nothing.

And while I'm naming names, Seahob, you are the worst of the worst of the HO ack runners.  You spent the whole night grabbing over your ack and then zooming in over the field to get in a little HO.  The second you're in any kind of jeopardy, its run back to my fleet ack.

[najdorf]

Arlo,

I understand the tactic of HOing in the allied planes and extending, but having the CV fleet that close to base makes the situation ridiculous.  We couldn't get any alt because of the ship ack and the allies weren't coming out from that umbrella.

I don't vulch in the CT, I'll "cap" in the MA which requires vulching, but the numbers are low in the CT and no one was really trying to capture the base.  I go into the CT for the good fites, a lot of times you can get better fites in the CT than you can in the MA.

My main problem is the way the setup allows this kind of crap on both sides.  I know all you allies are HOing ack running weenies;), but the situation last nite just makes it too easy.

The real problem is with the fites, which become very low quality.  Hey, I know I'm not the greatest pilit, and I don't really get that upset when someone beats me and they put my plane down.  What bothers me is the way these fights evolve, it can't be real exciting for allies either, HO then run, repeat till no gas, no ammo,or dead.

And what bothers me most about the kill stealing is again, this wasn't an attempt to "help."  This guy was arround when I was getting tagteamed and he didn't jump in then.  No, he waits till I have this guy basically helpless and then zooms down and plugs him.  While I'm not worried about my score, it's the enjoyment of setting a guy up and then downing him that I play for, so when someone does what daddog did, it robs me of some of the enjoyment I get from the game.  It would be like you going into the kitchen and making a sandwich for yourself and have your roommate grab it off the counter and eat it for you.

[J_A_B]

Trying to make special tiles in the TE seems like an awfully complex way to fix the problem.  A simple solution is plain and easy to see--

Just make larger islands and keep the airfields somewhat inland.


I wouldn't complain about THIS particular terrain, since it was designed mostly for scenario and event use and not so much for arena use.


J_A_B

[Nifty]

are you sure you saw what you saw?   Daddog doesn't just let people get beat up and swoop in for the easy kill.  If he saw you in trouble he will come if he can, and sometimes will come even though it will get him killed.  Maybe he saw you in trouble earlier but was dealing with other cons, and couldn't get over there rigth away.

At any rate, I will ask you kindly not to badmouth my CO in a public forum.  If you have an issue with Daddog, take it up in private radio or ask him to email you.

and urchin, I thought you "retired" or something.  

[Slash27]

I dont really think he was trying to upset you Naj, it was hard enough to get airborne with that F4F  vulching us. I think he was just clearing us some space.


does this setup win some kinda award for the most complained about?  

 Its definitley a candidate:D

[Batz]

Urchin will be flying in Operation Watchtower, I assume hes sharpening his skills.

Najdorf if you think its bad now then you aint been in a late war pac setup. The f4f is only faster below 5k (17 mph faster, but it easily out accellerates the a6m2). Imagine plane 30 -50mph faster then you. All you do is chase your tail while the bore and zzzzz'rs attempt aerial strafing gun passes, miss then run to ack to grab a 6k advantage to come bac and repeat.

Compared to those setups this one here is at relative parity. The p40b sux bellybutton so you cant really blame a guy for utilizing what little it has in terms of "strengths".

OH DD has always been a gentlemen

Follow Nifty's advice.........