RGR that Nifty, as I am sure you know, anytime you kill some guys wether it be from the front or from anywhere they always have a reason why you got the better of them except that you were a little better than they were in that particular fight. Thanks for the info and I agree with you 100% on the front quarter shots, but i just love it when someone texts, " why dont you learn ACM" just after you have killed them, I always get a chuckle when they do that hehe! Just cant admit that you got the better of them, "wont mention any names just to keep things civil" thanks again for the reply just wanted to see if anyone else agreed with me about HOs (as some call them)