Russian Weapons Make All Countries Feel Safe?!

[OIO]

Damnit you making me homesick. shaddap!

[AKIron]

Siaf, you seem to have forgotten that Iraq got a pretty sound bellybutton whuppin' when they were at their peak, before the sanctions were imposed. Russia either sold 'em antiquated hardware or it's junk. Either way, it just wasn't up to the competition.  

Ike, that F5 was used up until only a few years ago by the USAF as the Aggressor Sq for training in Nevada. May still be for all I know. Like Drill said, it's no slouch. Even the F4 Phantom II was used by the USAF as Wild Weasels until only a few years ago. May still be for all I know.

[miko2d]

AKIron: Siaf, you seem to have forgotten that Iraq got a pretty sound bellybutton whuppin' when they were at their peak, before the sanctions were imposed. Russia either sold 'em antiquated hardware or it's junk. Either way, it just wasn't up to the competition.

 So you think the fact that the hardware was manned by the poorely-trained and unmotivated iraqis and that iraqi troops were withdrawing without putting up a fight when they got bombed and strafed has nothing to do with the outcome?

 It is curious what kind of occupation you are in if you formed the conclusion that the tools are more important than the capability of a user or what he is actually trying to do with those tools?

 Some kind of extremely dumb do-nothing occupaton where what you are and how you do it is absolutely irrelevant? It's hard for me to imagine such a job.

 miko

[AKIron]

Originally posted by miko2d
It is curious what kind of occupation you are in if you formed the conclusion that the tools are more important than the capability of a user or what he is actually trying to do with those tools?

 Some kind of extremely dumb do-nothing occupaton where what you are and how you do it is absolutely irrelevant? It's hard for me to imagine such a job.

Awwww, come on now Miko, no need to get all ugly just because you embarrased yourself in another thread.

[Ike 2K#]

Originally posted by OIO
Ike, Your goverment couldve purchased F16s and F15s if they could afford them, which I seriously doubt.

My country, Colombia, does not buy those airplanes...first we cant afford them and second theres no need for them. Our Khafir fighters are updated regularly in their avionics and weapon systems, they may be no F15 or F16, but they do the job of killing Guerrillas and posing a serious threat in the air superiority role should any of our neighbors wish to play pokey.

Any country buying F15s and F16s or Mig29's in hopes of being able to defend itself against a major world power like the USA or Britain are sadly deluded, no matter how good or how many they buy, the bigger boys will always have more of them and with better stuff on them. So why burn money in stupidities?

Take Peru for example. In their "incident" with Ecuador in the 90's they almost came to war.. they had their fighters and helicopters shooting each other... Peru had F16's , Ecuador had POS fighters. In the biggest folly of all , Peru's F16's were grounded because there was not money for spare parts or the fuel to use them in combat, they were too expensive to use or risk using. How much more messed up can you get?

As far as Russian weapons go, you just have to look at what Russia itself is worried about.

The Iraqi army was built from the ground up as a mirror copy of the Russian military, with assistance from Russian military peeps. Their Air defenses, their training, weapons, etc.

And they got WIPED in less than a week by a force which was significantly smaller, on unfamiliar terrain and on the attack role.

Now the russian military is going to be having a MAJOR restructuring after this war. You just wait and see. They have realized that their policy of poorly trained, but numerous (conscript), centralized command,with mass-firepower based army design fails in front of a highly trained, precise and volunteer (motivated), SMALLER force.

Damn, if the F-20 tigershark was built for foreign military sales (FMS), then the philippines, or other countries could have a fighter that has the F-16's performance with a maintenance cost of the F-5E fighter (F-5E's are pretty cheap and easy to maintain).

[miko2d]

AKIron: Awwww, come on now Miko, no need to get all ugly just because you embarrased yourself in another thread.

  I was referring to an occupation I could not imagine, not you personally. Sorry for misunderstanding. If I wanted to call you an idiot, I woudl have done so, trust me.

 And you are too early to boast of my supposed embarrasment in anotehr thread - or lying and expecting people would not check for themselves that your "proof" supported my point, not yours.

 Major flop here. Definitely a dumb thing to present "proofs" without looking at them first or expecting others to be to lazy to do so.

 miko

[AKIron]

Ah Miko, let's see, I posted that the US kicked the Iraqis bellybutton even when they greatly outnumbered the US I might add, and had not yet been subjected to debilitating sanctions. My conclusion; their equipment (mostly Russian made) was sorely inferior.

Now you come back with this:

"Some kind of extremely dumb do-nothing occupaton where what you are and how you do it is absolutely irrelevant? It's hard for me to imagine such a job."

Are you now saying this wasn't directed at me personnally? Who then was it directed at?

While you're explaining, please tell me how you know that the Iraqis, particularly the Republican Guard, was so poorly trained? Try to keep in mind that we're talking about the first round in '90.

[AGJV44_Rot 1]

Take the T-90 for instance.  That tank is and will be a force ona battlefield.  Taken from experience in Afghanistan and other events surrounding its tanks they improved on it tremendously.

Or check these out very nice

CHIORNY ORIOL (BLACK EAGLE) Main Battle Tank
Or the T-95 very nice tanks
check this site out.  
http://www.mw-line.at/mw_technology_products.html

[Ike 2K#]

Originally posted by AGJV44_Rot 1
Take the T-90 for instance.  That tank is and will be a force ona battlefield.  Taken from experience in Afghanistan and other events surrounding its tanks they improved on it tremendously.

Or check these out very nice

CHIORNY ORIOL (BLACK EAGLE) Main Battle Tank
Or the T-95 very nice tanks
check this site out.  
http://www.mw-line.at/mw_technology_products.html

YEP and the russians (or the ukrainians) are trying to sell these tanks around the world.

T-95 info/specs:

This tank is what was originally perceived in the West to be the perspective Russian MBT. It is either a hoax or a real conceptual prototype. In the latter case its relation to Nizhny Tagil design is unknown.

The design is unique in that it has a very small and extremely rounded auto-loader instead of a turret. The entire crew is situated in the hull, which is separated from the auto-loader by an armored bulkhead. Main gun rounds are placed in a circle around a loader and are delivered by a revolving transporter, fully automating the loading procedure. This scheme raises crew survivability to an incredible level.

Yet another major innovation attributed to this tank is a new anti-tank gun that has a larger caliber than the 2A46 series, 135 mm. This 135mm gun pops up occasionally since as early as the end of eighties when it was attributed to a mysterious T-86 MBT. Today it is more or less a certainty that there is no 135mm gun in existence. 2A46M is still in service, and accuracy and reliability upgrades and new ammo designs seem to bring it finally to the level of the powerful Rh-120 line of guns of Leopard, Abrams and Merkava. There are, however, indications of a 152mm tank gun being developed.

It is hard to tell how much in common does this MBT have with a real new tank being developed in Nizhny Tagil, but the main features of both vehicles are an unmanned gunpod, crew placement in the hull and a large-caliber maingun.

 
T-95 MBT

 

Turret layout
 Weight:               50? metric tons
Crew:                 3

Engine:               1000 hp diesel or 1250 hp gas-turbine
Max Road Speed:       >75 km/h
Max X-country Speed:  >48 km/h
Power/Weight:         at least 24.0 hp/tn
Ground Pressure:      1.00? kg/sq.cm

Weapons
Main Weapon:          135mm smoothbore?!
Ammunition:           40? rounds
Ammunition Types:     APFSDS, HEAT, HEF, ?
ATGM through 135mm:   most likely 9M119M "Refleks" (Sniper-B) derivative
Auxiliary armament:   UNKNOWN
Smoke Screens:        Smoke Grenades, Smoke Discharger

Equipment
Rangefinder:          Laser
Night Vision:         Thermal Imager
Fire Control:         Optical; Missile Guidance Capability
Jammers:              Shtora-1? IR & SACLOS Jammer, Radar Jammer

Onboard Computer
Accuracy aids, Target recognition and acquisition,
HQ and units link, Global positioning

Active Protection System: Arena?

Front Armor (Turret):     composite, very rounded
Front Armor (Hull):       composite
                          3rd generation ERA
Side Armor (Turret):      composite, very rounded
Side Armor (Hull):        ?
                          3rd generation ERA
Rear Armor (Turret):      composite, very rounded
Rear Armor (Hull):        ?
Top Armor (Turret):       ?
                          3rd generation ERA

[AGJV44_Rot 1]

punt

[Ike 2K#]

??????????????????????????????????????

define that word for me!

[Siaf__csf]

I know there is a practical reason you hide your identity. If people knew where you were from, they'd realize have the crap you post is based on no first hand knowledge and a huge bias.

Martlett if that's not defensive posting, I don't know what is. Care to tell the rest of us what makes you create these wild assumptions?

The fact is that you don't know jack about who I am, where I come from nor where I get my information from. However I know who you are and where you get your information from, it's pretty obvious in your opinnions.

Reminds me a lot of the soviets standing behind the official party truth.

[Martlet]

Originally posted by Siaf__csf

The fact is that you don't know jack about who I am, where I come from nor where I get my information from. However I know who you are and where you get your information from, it's pretty obvious in your opinnions.

 

Exactly.  And due to your blatant misinformation, it is obvious you don't know Jack about the topics you speak on.  It's quite apparent you have never left your country for an extended period, have no facts to base your opinion, and are hiding behind BBS anonymity to  make up facts that support your slanted argument.

Hmmm, you must be Russian.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Martlet

Hmmm, you must be Russian.

He comes off that way doesnt he?  But I have a feeling he is either canadian or living in the USA.