Author Topic: Comparison: Berlin 1989 vs Baghdad 2003 (Read 2525 times)

Martlet · « **Reply #15 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:36:12 AM »

what has looting got to do with comparing the removal of one oppressive regime to that of another?

Frogm4n · « **Reply #16 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:39:28 AM »

no i dont consider it a sacrifice, oh no how terrible. I have to live a upper middle class lifestyle in another country for a bit. give me a break, they got paid well for it. it was their jobs. i consider a sacrifice something that is a great personal loss. Like the guys in normandy or the grunts in vietnam. they sacrificed, dont try to compare the two. you could say " how fast did the germans forget about all the americans that were slightly discomferted for a bit to protect their country from an enemy that wouldnt have invaded anyways"

Martlet · « **Reply #17 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:41:44 AM »

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Originally posted by Frogm4n
no i dont consider it a sacrifice, oh no how terrible. I have to live a upper middle class lifestyle in another country for a bit. give me a break, they got paid well for it. it was there jobs. i consider a sacrifice something that is a great personal loss. Like the guys in normandy or the grunts in vietnam. they sacrificed, dont try to compare the two. you could say " how fast did the germans forget about all the americans that were slightly discomferted for a bit to protect their country from an enemy that wouldnt have invaded anyways"

You have obviously never served in the military. You do fine when you talk about topics you are informed on. You should stick to that.

Frogm4n · « **Reply #18 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:43:53 AM »

explain to me how servering in the military was such a horrible sacrifice. We have a volunteer army, you are not sacrificeing anything when you know your going to have to travel for your job. you dont hear a buisness man saying what a great sacrifice he made for his country because he had to work in the tokyo office for 6 years.

Martlet · « **Reply #19 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:46:06 AM »

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Originally posted by Frogm4n
explain to me how servering in the military was such a horrible sacrifice. We have a volunteer army, you are not sacrificeing anything when you know your going to have to travel for your job. you dont hear a buisness man saying what a great sacrifice he made for his country because he had to work in the tokyo office for 6 years.

Being a volunteer military doesn't make it any less of a sacrifice. Would you say the soldiers killed in Iraq haven't made a sacrifice, since they volunteered, knowing they would go to battle?

Dowding · « **Reply #20 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:47:59 AM »

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Except it had the exact same effect on the populace. Freedom.

I agree there. But any other comparisons are stretching it.

AKIron · « **Reply #21 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:48:07 AM »

I'm done wasting my time on you Frog. You wanna toe that narrow minded leftist line, thinking you owe no one anything, you go right ahead. I'll do my best to ignore your ignorant and arrogant rants.

Preon1 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:48:41 AM »

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Originally posted by Frogm4n
you dont hear a buisness man saying what a great sacrifice he made for his country because he had to work in the tokyo office for 6 years.

How many civilians do you see taking long jobs overseas while leaving the family back home? How many make sure that their will and other affairs are in order before they leave?

People who enlist in the military do so on a voluntary basis, yes. But just because they volunteer makes it no less a sacrifice.

Frogm4n · « **Reply #23 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:50:02 AM »

they did make a sacrifice, i was trying to point out being stationed in another country isnt a sacrifice when its part of their job. plenty of civilians do it and do not call it a sacrifice, like akiron pointed out. the topic im whineing about is that we really didnt sacrifice anything in destroying the USSR's economy. It was already falling apart in the 70's, and if anything we benefited greatly from it.

Boroda · « **Reply #24 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:51:13 AM »

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Originally posted by Mini D
LOL! Wait dowding...

Are you refering to the looting that occured when the East Germans were "liberated"?

LOL! Sorry, I thought you were refering to when they were occupied.

Of course, there was nothing left to loot because anything of real value had been removed from the country entirely.

I wonder what would have happened if, when the Russians pulled out, they'd left palaces and offices lavishly decorated and massively stocked with supplies. Actually, I don't wonder... I know.

MiniD

Oh, again, evil, evil Russians...

Do you know when the "group of troops" withdrew from Germany?

Do you know what Soviet Army left in the countries it left, not only Warsaw Treaty members, but former Soviet Republics? Also you can try to find out who insised on destruction of Soviet Army infrastructure after it left Pribaltika ("Baltic countries").

Very sad to see how even the modern history is rewritten.

Martlet · « **Reply #25 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:53:51 AM »

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Originally posted by Boroda
Oh, again, evil, evil Russians...

Do you know when the "group of troops" withdrew from Germany?

Do you know what Soviet Army left in the countries it left, not only Warsaw Treaty members, but former Soviet Republics? Also you can try to find out who insised on destruction of Soviet Army infrastructure after it left Pribaltika ("Baltic countries").

Very sad to see how even the modern history is rewritten.

modern history is rewritten every time pravda "goes to press"

Ripsnort · « **Reply #26 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:54:28 AM »

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Originally posted by Boroda

Very sad to see how even the modern history is rewritten.

Well quit trying to re-write it then!

AKIron · « **Reply #27 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:54:29 AM »

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Originally posted by Frogm4n
they did make a sacrifice, i was trying to point out being stationed in another country isnt a sacrifice when its part of their job. plenty of civilians do it and do not call it a sacrifice, like akiron pointed out. the topic im whineing about is that we really didnt sacrifice anything in destroying the USSR's economy. It was already falling apart in the 70's, and if anything we benefited greatly from it.

Well, I just can't help myself. Are you really so blind as to think that Berlin, and probably all of Germany as well, wouldn't have been gobbled up by the Soviets if not for American troops?

Frogm4n · « **Reply #28 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:55:44 AM »

the soviets just ran the puppet governments of east germany, i remember driving through east germany when i was about 12 and seeing some of their army. uniforms didnt fit, crappy equipment didnt really look like an army, hell the troops look half starved and sure as hell didnt want to be there. They were germans and because they didnt follow their imorale orders to shoot the people tearing down the walls the reunification was allowed to procede.

Preon1 · « **Reply #29 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:57:32 AM »

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Originally posted by Dowding
I agree there. But any other comparisons are stretching it.

Perhaps I should quote the article:

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Rumsfeld had said last week that the television images of Iraqis celebrating as US soldiers helped pull down giant statues of Saddam in Baghdad reminded him of the joyous scenes of Berliners jumping onto the Wall that locked them out of the West.

"The scenes of free Iraqis celebrating...tearing down the statues of Saddam Hussein in the centre of Baghdad are breathtaking," Rumsfeld said. "Watching them I cannot help but think of the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the Iron Curtain."

Unfortunately, nobody has come up with sources relating the details of the events of 9 Nov. I'll agree that it was a peaceful day. However, the first I heard of Doctors carrying AK-47s was from Dowding (no offense, but I'm not going to rely on that either).

Still, you have two peoples, liberated from a repressive regime. There was struggle beforehand and celebration afterwards. I think a comparison has plenty of merit.